Step Up Transformer

@lewm sure, everything is a personal call. And I did say 'in my experience', didn't I? In contrast Raul always presents his opinions as the Gospel, so I figured a contrasting opinion wouldn't hurt.

@dover given your extensive experience, would you share with us what you consider to be the best trannies you ever heard? Thanks.

Raul, on paper your argument makes perfect sense. But in practice things might work out differently. In my system I have the possibility to choose between various SUT’s, voltage gain and current gain devices and some cartridges have a clear preference for the use of an SUT in the signal path. Others definitely do not, it all depends.

I realise this is pretty much a useless answer to the OP, were it not for the fact that in my experience Ortofon MC’s tend to have a liking for SUT’s. My SPU’s, A95, Anna and even the old MC7500 all sound at their best with a good SUT. So I wouldn’t be at all surprised if this also goes for the Cadenza Black, which shares many of the basics with these other models. Just give it a try......

@pindac I recognize the ’flavour of the day’ argument, which is why I ended up with more cartridges than strictly necessary and various tonearm and amplification options. After reaching saturation point with record collecting and satisfaction point with the audio system, the ’hobby’ aspect is now restricted to cart rolling. From personal (okay lewm?) experience I’ve learned that some combinations stand out, sometimes when you least expect it to. The sound has an intrinsic rightness, as if there’s some kind of electric handshake. In my system(s) the Ortofon cartridges I own behave like this every time I connect them to an SUT.

@mulveling very apt description of the Ortofon’s sonics through active gain devices. The dry and lean character simply vanishes with a good SUT. Tonearm matching can also make or break them. For example, I had great trouble getting the Anna from mistracking on the tonearms I tried (FR64S, Micro MAX-237, Audiocraft AC-4400 and Exclusive EA-10). So I almost gave up on it until I tried it with a FR64FX on a second turntable. Now it tracks everything with apparent ease and sounds terrific. A complete change of behaviour that I just can’t explain.

Funny you should mention Koetsu as your benchmark. I’ve been having much trouble coming to terms with an Onyx (pre platinum) and I was prepared to give up on it as well. Until I changed around some connections which hooked up my FR64S (silver wire inside) through an Ikeda copper wire tonearm cable to a silver wired Ortofon T-3000. And waddayouknow? The Onyx in a FR RS-141 headshell with Ortofon silver leadwires gave musical bliss! No comparison with any other combination I had tried thus far. I no longer expected this to happen, but I’m glad it did. The Koetsu is now a keeper.

@rauliruegas you really know everything don’t you? I know you don’t like FR64S, so no surprise there. But I was very surprised as well as disappointed that Anna even mistracked in the MAX-237 (with J-shape armpipe), because that arm could handle everything or so I thought. I also know you don’t like SUT’s, but why do you think an active gain device wouldn’t add colorations of its own? The Boulder electronics were selected for their neutrality and that’s generally how they present music through the Maggies. With cartridges like Miyabi Standard, Transfiguration Proteus, Shelter Harmony or VdHul Colibri this delivers a sound that to my ears is very accurate, but also enchanting and immersive. With the Ortofons this set up emphasizes their own neutrality (a good thing in itself of course) to the point of being sterile, which keeps you uninvolved. Somehow a good SUT restores that balance. At least that’s the way I perceive things, but of course YMMV.

@rauliruegas it's true you didn't say that with so many words, so I stand corrected. But you do keep repeating that a SUT only adds distortion, which seems to imply that the active MC gain device it replaces does not add or at least adds LESS distortion. If you look at the 'dry' specs you're probably right, but doesn't active circuitry add it own set of problems compared to a passive device like a SUT?

I'm not partial to either and use them both as equals. Both are capable of delivering great sound (or as you would say: according to MY set of preferred distorions), but when you choose the wrong combination the whole thing will collapse before your very ears. I've been very critical of Koetsu's sonics when used with several active SS gain devices. Its sound literally transformed using a silver wire SUT. In a less drastic way the Ortofons show the same behaviour. So I think there's more to it than just supposedly 'superior' specs on paper. It seems to me that dismissing SUT's categorically because of 'inferior' specs is a mistake.

@rauliruegas it seems what you're telling me is that I would need to purchase one of those $25k+ Swiss devices (not sure what Moon is doing in that lineup) to be able to hear the superiority of active gain devices over a passive SUT. This will never happen, so it's a non issue.

But in more practical terms you're effectively saying that at less extreme price levels an SUT is in fact NOT inferior to active gain devices, just a different approach but equally valid. This confirms my own findings and it seems relevant information for folks not into that $$$$$ game. This is not whatsbest forum, so I should think regular music enthousiasts are in the majority here, not millionaires. 

@rauliruegas I haven’t heard the 1110, but you do know this is a linestage only? So I don’t see the relevance in the context of this discussion. As for the dedicated phono amp in the 1000/1100 series I have it on good authority that the current 1108 is only a marginally different design than the 1008 that preceded it.

For what it’s worth, the phono stage of the 1010 in MM mode combined with a good SUT can reach the same sound quality level as the 1008 phono amp in MC mode. Provided you hit on a cartridge/SUT combination that meshes really well. There is however a significant sound quality difference between the MC stage if the 1010 preamp and that of the 1008, besides operational differences like limited 60dB gain level (1008 is 70 dB) and the fixed 100 ohms impedance (1008 is adjustable). The Boulder 1000 series components which I’ve owned now for 10 years or more are the end of the amp journey for me. So I have no interest in the newer 1100 series, let alone their higher 2000/2100 series or other ultra $$$$$ stuff, including the brands you named.

However I might still search for a better SUT than Ortofon T-3000, like possibly the Denon you mention or the Audio Technica AT-1000T which is also supposed to be one of the best ever. Just out of curiosity and because it wouldn't require remorgaging the house.

@lewm yeah, but I was under the impression that most current gain devices have a line level output. I use one such device myself, the Swiss made Blue Systems Aria built by Reto Andreoli. This unit offers an interesting alternative to SUT+MM voltage gain or MC voltage gain amplification. In my experience it provides the best performance with ultra low impedance cartridges, like Transfiguration Orpheus L and Proteus. This should come as no surprise, but perhaps I will hit on some other less obvious combinations that sound much better than expected. These are the surprises that keep the 'hobby' aspect interesting.

@lewm thanks for the explanation, I wasn't aware such a device even existed.

@dover thanks for taking the time to respond. I’m aware there is no ’best’, only better or worse interactions between cartridge, tonearm and amplification device, sometimes with surprising results when you least expect it. In order to draw any valid conclusions one would need to take a ’system’ approach and try out as many different combinations as possible, which is why I value your veteran expert opinion.

What you’re saying doesn’t really conflict with my own findings, based on my experiments with some 35 different MC cartridges, 5 different tonearms and 5 different phono amplification devices. This is of course a very limited ’universe’ compared to what’s out there, even if the number of different combinations to try within it is already vast. Some combinations work well as to be expected (based on specs), while others work much better or worse than expected. It seems in those ’best’ cases there’s some kind of electric handshake, perhaps similar to the best cartridge / tonearm combinations having an ideal mechanical interaction. And when both mechanical and electric synergy happen simultaniously, the results will most likely be outstanding.

Perhaps it would be worthwile if some of the more experienced folks like you would take the time to make their personal list of cartridge / tonearm / amplification combinations that really stand out from the crowd. If more people would mention the same combinations as being excellent, this could create some sort of experience based consensus about the ’best’ possible combinations as interacting systems, instead of the generally useless opinions about ’best’ components in isolation. Such a list might be useful to people who need help with their purchase decisions, which are the most frequent questions on this forum.

I don’t feel qualified to start this myself, but I would gladly contribute my own limited findings later on. So, anyone dare to go first?