Spindle-To-Pivot Distance

@tomwh  :  Btw, calculations under IEC parameters.

R.

Dear @tomwh : " do the test I wrote about. ":

"" Maybe have a person get a album you are not familiar with then have him play it choosing different spots , with you not looking....... tell him where the null points are on it . ""

Not you, not me and I think no one can tell " him " about those null points and it’s very simple why we can’t do it:

our ears are extremely limited not only in frequency range but way limited to identify some kind of distortions especially distortions of low levels along that we are not trained on purpose to be aware of your posted test but additional to that tracking distortion levels out of the null points are changing its levels ( up and down depending if we are listening before or after each nul point. ) groove to groove and this continuty with to low distortion level groove after groove makes imposible to be aware of it.

These are examples using Löfgren B alignment that always has the null points at 70.28 mm and 116.60mm:

the tracking distortion at 140mm is 0.507% and at 130mm is 0.30%: Do you think that you can identify the 0.2% difference between those 2 grooves?

Now, at 130mm is 0.30 and at 129mm is 0.27%. Could you identify it? I think ( not even with training ) you can’t do it.

Near one null point example: at 120mm is 0.07% and at 119mm is 0.05%, the difference is 0.02% and you want that I try to identify that null point?.
Has no sense to me but was your proposal.


Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

Dear @tomwh : " but music reproduction has far to many variables to be able..."

Rigth and we have to add to those variables the ones that comes with any cartridge/tonearm/TT set up and that are different cartridge by cartridge, tonearm by tonearm and TT by TT.

I owned 2-3 linear tracking tonearms and all gone because its bass range quality performance was and is a little better with pivoted tonearm designs, yes other frequency ranges sounds spectacular.

So the issue could be: which are each one of us the best choosed trade-offs that could mates better with our room/system MUSIC reproduction targets?

I learned a lot with unorthodox changes/up date/up grade in my system but till today nothing of what I already experienced in the subject tells me the way to go is with pivoted straight tonearm designs ( underhung ), I’m orthodox in this specific regards.

Can I move in the near future from there? could be, I’m married not with my room/system way of thinking set up but only with MUSIC, this is my compromise always make " moves " in favor of MUSIC no matter what.

Btw, : " I have not heard any wild distortion issues..." of course not and that is the issue for this controversial " situation ": off set angle or no angle at all.
In a blind tests probably several of us can't detect which one has no off-set and only the ones that know very specific what to look for through the LP tracks could do it and I mean using cartridges and LP track knowed by the listener under test.

R.

Dear @lewm : ""  I have to wonder what Baerwald and Lofgren heard with what must have been...""

that does not changes in any way the orthodox alignments.

In the other side I know you are not deaf and as you I owned the RS tonearm that I bought by some kind of " curiosity " but never was for me something other than " interesting " and was sold.

As you and I posted at least twice in otjher threads I made once a mistake with the overhang set up, I made it longer and was unawarte of that mistake.
I did it with a very well know ( for me ) cartridge quaklity performance and I was listened to it by 5-6days and I took in account that for " whatever " unknow reason the high frequency range performs better than ever with more definition and " transparency " but at the same time something was not good enough at the other frequency extreme where lives the music foundation and I was very sensible to that range as with the other one.
My common sense told me that something weird could be happening down there and I recheck the tonearm cartridge alignment at found out my error.
After fix it " things " settle down but I tested on purpose with other cartridges and results were similar.
Can I live with? of course I can it sounds really good but that bass range performs better under the rules.

R.

Dear @tomwh  : "  arms with no offset ......... Seems to be a little more dynamic. "

Well sure it performs/soind different but from where do you think comes that higher " dynamic ". ? you are very precise in your statement: " more dynamic ". So what are you listen on it against your similar offset one tonearm?

Thank's in advance,
R.

Dear @lewm  : " , and how their work applies to modern stereo gear.....""

of course that you are free to post whatever you want it but it's weird that on almost each alignment isssue threads post the same " question " but you never posted a different solution or why you are " wonder " the same one and again.

Obviously that you have not an answer/different solution and with all respect: what are you lokking for?

R.

Been mathematics alignment overall parameters can be manipulated by any one and only has to make the new calculations for the alignment.

As a fact the Stevenson alignment comes by Stevenson parameter manipulation using the Löfgren equations: he took the equations input " most inner groove " distance and converted it in the inner null point.

R.

Dear @mrearl :"" Suppose I have a tonearm that wants to be mounted 250mm from the spindle . ""

first that all is not that the " tonearm wants ", that could be the manufacturer spec ( normally the manufacturer gives the tonearm EL. ) and nothing more than that.

If you need to mount from the spindle at 240mm what you are doing is changing not null points but tonearm effective length, overhang and off-set angle.
So what you need is that the tonearm/cartridge new alignment be made it with a new overhang and offset angle.
A shorter effective lenght gives you a little higher overall distortion levels that maybe you can't even be aware of.

Here the parameters value you need for 250mm and you can choose between those 3 alignments:

https://www.vinylengine.com/tonearm_alignment_calculator_pro.php?arm1=Arm+1&l1=ps&a1lv=250&a...

here for 240mm:

https://www.vinylengine.com/tonearm_alignment_calculator_pro.php?arm1=Arm+1&l1=ps&a1lv=240&a...


If you use a good protractor then normally there will be no cartridge mistraking.


Btw, it does not matters the changes in tonearms EL the null points inside each type of alignment: Lögren A or B or Stevenson always are the same.

In 1938 Erik Löfgren stated over his calculation equations to find out the cartridge/tonearm overhang, off set and the alignment null points where the input parameters in his equations were and are: tonearm EL, innermost groove and outer most groove distances and the equations outputs: overhang, offset angle, null points and by difference P2S distance.


Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.