Speakers vs. headphones


I’ve spent many, many years building a stereo system that I finally can say I’m satisfied with, but recently had to make a change due to a complaint of “too much noise” in the house.  So, headphones were the answer.  
After just a few days of listening with a middling headphone (HIFIMAN Ananda) and inexpensive DAT (Firefly Cobalt,) I find myself enjoying (and getting into) the music  more.  Of course my system objectively is much better and cost light years more.  However, I find there is a certain intimacy, seemingly being closer to the music, and of course no distracting audible room effects to deal with. 
I’m not giving up speaker listening but what a pleasant surprise.

 

Who knew?

rvpiano

Showing 8 responses by mahgister

I owned them 30 years it was my first quality heeadphone before the 7 others...

But they were very good.... All were diferent but Beyerdynamic DT950 pro was a gem...

I am almost tempted to buy one another time...Even if i dont need them...One of my favorite...

Over the years I’ve put about 40 K in my system . Not that much .

I hear more in every way in ByerDynamic 990pro that cost 150$ and

has been on market for 20 years . Stupid !

Always told a buddy didn’t like it on my head , he said , try one month

and I’ll pay for it .

Being honest man(usually) I said he was right in less than 3 weeks .REALLY Stupid !!

 

It is very normal...And i lived through the same experience with my 7 headphones. ( now retired)

Details and intimacy, clarity and transparency are way easier to be reach with good headphones at low price and without the complex room treatment and necessary control than with speakers..

 

But when we succeed in room treatment and control we reach all these qualities and way more than what most headphone could ever do...Without the uncomfort of wearing a headband...

But most people dont have a dedicated isolated room and never will have one, and most who have one will never invest long time and study in acoustic listening experiments anyway, then headphones stay one of the most interesting solutions for listening music at low cost with good S.Q.

But at the end, speakers or headphones is a completely personal FREE choice and experience.. We can also enjoy the two experience like i did myself for years... . But my posts are there to speak about the real power of acoustic in HI-FI experience OVER the gear upgrade marketing conditioning...

And what you call the "room effect" can be a very positive superior upgrading room effect and also a negative partially unresolved problem and degrading room effect... Acoustic and psycho-acoustic experiments ask for way more than buying ready made costly panels of any kind...I never bought anything....

 

I hate to say it, but I now find listening with my headphones a more immersive experience than listening with my speakers. Maybe it’s the novelty, but I find I’m getting more involved in the music through headphones. There’s a more immediate and direct connection without distractions or “room effect.”

Maybe I will feel different once the novelty wears off.
I have a hell of a lot more investment in capital and time in my system than with phones.

 

I understand your point and you are right frogman...

I salute you and appreciate greatly all your posts...

I am in ecstasy with your Pat Martino recommendation right now and i can forget headphones and rooms...

Thanks to you...

 

This is the reason that home recordings of any medium always sound best when the speakers are not playing while recording takes place.  By extension, I think the same can be said of this potential benefit while listening on headphones.  

But trust me, headphones vibrate a lot unbeknownst to us like a speaker encxlosure vibrate... And even the headphone band transmit vibrations and crosstalk... 😁😊

 

My ears are not between the drivers speakers and the enclosure of the speaker..

They are in the room...

My ears are not between the drivers headphone and the shell of the headphone..

The rooms is on each my ears here..

In the 2 case the "room" or shell, i must controls the SAME factors to optimize the experience...mechancal, electrical and acoustical...

Have you ever try to modify an headphone?

If you try you will improve it if you made the right changes..I modify my 7 headphones with success...

But at the end a room can deliver what most shell would never deliver : more lifelike experience of music in a real non confined space filling the room not filling the head...And the intimacy of headphone sound can even be reach in a room ... I did it...

Yes it is a question of tastes and needs... But it is also a question of experience and experiments... At the end any room could beat all headphones IF acoustically well controlled...IF not it is a matter of taste and convenience for sure... Most people dont have a dedicated room to begin with and to do experiments with it...

This is my point ...

Ok i apologize and will mute myself now.... 😊

My deepest respect to you frogman...

 

 

 

The reflections/absorbtion/diffusion of the sound INSIDE the headpohone shell is what we listen to...We dont listen to the sound coming directly from the driver of the headphone... This is my point...

 

For the speaker enclosure it is necessary to control his vibrations and resonance...But like from an headphone drivers and shell who vibrate, the room vibrate also and the gear, and the speakers must be mechanically isolated...

Shell geometry is akin to speaker enclosure+room

Why?

Because in a 13 feet square room it is easy to calculate the speed of sound and realized that the waves cross my room roughly 10 times each second...( the neuro physiology of sound treatment is calculated in fraction of a second, less than few hundreds milliseconds for the brain).

What i listen then to DONT COME from the speakers enclosure and the drivers of the speakers directly but from the room geometry and acoustic content and even is characterized by his topology, in my case 2 windows and one door ...

In the case of an headphone we must divide the speed of sound by the few inches of the shell and you will realized that you dont listen to the headphone drivers DIRECTLY but to the shell of the headphone and to his acoustical content and even to his topology if the headphone is open...

Then yes headphone elimnate the room problem... But my room eliminate the DIFFERENT shells problem of ALL my headphone... 😁😊No headphone sound at all like one another why? Shell geometry, topology, and specific acoustic peoperties of the different materials composing the headphone...Same problem than with a room...

i respect you greatly frogman and i apologize for insisting about my point...

But anyone can prefer headphones for sure... But the reason cannot be because they are IDEALLY and by DESIGN better than room+speakers because they eliminate the room, yes they eliminate the room, but they replace it by another room problem : their own shell...

The only reason why people prefer headphone is the fact that it is more complex et difficult to set a room acoustic than a shell acoustic... But at the end in a dedicated room well chosen speakers in a rightfully embedded acoustic, the confort is better and the S.Q. MAY be better... it is my experience...

I wish you the best and respect you more than words can say...

 

“Shell geometry” is akin to speaker enclosure geometry.

 

You are right like i already said, it is up to personal choices and tastes and needs...

But it way easier to modify a room to reach an optimal S.Q. than modify the shell headphones... No headphone shell is perfect like no room is perfect BEFORE mechanical,electrical and acoustical controls... This is basic science not my taste...It is my experience...

And the living dynamic and bass, and INTEGRATED image of the sound is better in my room because of my acoustic settings, even intimacy... I listen music with the sound out of my head and with the intimacy of an headphone...

 

The main reason why many people PREFER headphone is simple, they dont have the luxury of a dedicated room which they can transform acoustically... I understand that... But i must describe my experience for those who have the time and a dedicated room...No need for headphone after that because they will be unsatifying, fir many reasons, like confort, not only the S.Q. ....

 

@mahgister - Neither my speakers nor my headphones are ’better’ than the other - they are two completely different ways to experience music. If somebody thinks their ’headphones are better than their speakers’, it means that they prefer headphones to speakers, not at all necessarily due to room treatment or protecting others from the sound.

 

First frogman thanks for your kind words...

Second you are right at the end, it is up to anyone taste and needs...

But third i must correct something you said about eliminating the room...

Because ALL headphones had a SHELL geometry and an internal acoustic content, which correspond to the room geometry and acoustic content...And if someone can eliminate the room properties using headphone, he cannot eliminate the shell properties itself...

Then all my 7 headphones , 2 stax included, had their own acoustic signature like any room...

Because of that i MODDED all my headphone to eliminate vibrations, to control the electrical noise floor from them and even to change their acoustic settings for the better, FOR ALL OF THEM...I succeed...But when i decided to modify my room acoustically i succeed also and reach a better S.Q....

Also ,contrary to the general opinion, even a small SQUARE room like mine is EASY to use and transform acoustically to a so great effect that most headphone cannot  compete with , even in intimacy and details count...But we must have a dedicated room ,not a living room, and we must treat the room with reflective  absorbing and diffusive panels in equilibrium..Not only that we must use an active mechanical control of the room to modify the pressure zones distribution...

It is my experience...

Many facts in audio are beliefs that are unfounded, for example it is not true that near listening can eliminate the "room effect" in a small room, all changes in the acoustical settings impact on the near listening field ALSO in my room and not only on the regular listening position away from the speakers... It is like that in any room of relatively small size...

It is not true that a small square room is "bad" because of the resonant bass modes like  some claims and even  acoustic products sellers ...If we know how to change the pressure zones distribution in the room, a small square room (13x13 feet by 8 feet 1/2 high) can be astounding in bass, soundstage, imaging, intimacy, listener envelopment etc...,Mine is ...

Of all the facts erroneous in audio the more widespread is the illusion that the sound come from the gear electronical design first....It is false.... The acoustic settings of a room is the most important factor , not the dac, the amplifier or even the speakers if these speakers are rightfully choosen for a specific room to begin with...

All audio engineering push the market to upgrade expanse and had no interest to educate people about acoustic....

The vocabulary of engineering about sound is absolutely not the vocabulary of acoustic about sound, but at least the acoustic vocabulary is CENTERED about the timbre playing tonal experience and the relations between different sound sources in the room...

But like you already know people in audio thread spoke about bass and highs, about cold or warm, neutrallity etc...None of these words describe sound nor music... They describe the way the electrical design MAY contribute positively or negatively to sound experience nothing more... But who listen ONLY to his amplifier?

 

mahgister makes a great point, as usual, about the benefits of acoustic control of the listening room, but in doing so he also explains why headphone listening can be so good - room effects are completely taken out of the equation. It is for this reason that I think it is not a matter of “better” or “worse”.

My experience is the opposite...

After finishing my room treatment and control, i put my headphones in the closet..

I dont want them anymore... 7 pairs covering, electrostatc, magnepan, electroacoustic and hybrid.... 😁😊

the reason and the difference in opinions come only from a simple fact:

acoustic controls...

I can modify all the perameter of acoustic in the room...

The intimacy i had with headphones i created it with a diffusive screen 2 angular panets with diffusive tubular structures and many other acoustic devices...

The only reason i see for headphones is to protect others for the sound... And i dont need that...

If your headphone are better than your speakers it is because the room acoustic is not  at his optimal settings...