Speakers for leading edge, transients, speed and big sound

@saummisra --

Look for a pair of used Meyer Sound X-10’s. They’re active speakers and are about the best that can be had in the 15" woofer/midrange + horn/waveguide class of speakers out there. That’s including the JBL M2, K2 S9900, Everest’s etc., and yes, you’ll have to take my word for it. They don’t sound like horns but deliver a big, effortless, delicate and coherent presentation. Great tonality as well. There’s a "domesticized" tower version in veneer, but I’d seek out the regular duratex finished pro-look version that needs to be lifted up on some low stands. They’re no longer in production and are hard to find, I gather, and they’re industrial looking for sure, but if you’re in this for the sound and what you’re addressing, they’re the real deal and not some overpriced, prettitied home stereo so-so stuff. 

Another interesting option could be the the dutch Stage Accompany speakers, namely the M57 and M59 models. They house a high sensitivity ribbon midrange/tweeter (SA 8535) that plays down to 1.5kHz and up to 20kHz. A friend of mine is using the M57’s (a 2-way MTM design with the SA 8535 and SA 1205 12" woofers) actively configured and subs augmented - a great setup. Personally I’d go for the X-10’s, but the SA speakers are very, very good, and they can be had new within your budget. Like the X-10’s they’re no audiophile beauties but rather made in rugged duratex finish. They’re not about looks, popular audiophile brands, vanity or other but just great sound. EDIT: actually the SA speakers can be had in a range of finishes and colors, other than duratex. 

Then there’s ATC’s SCM300ASL Pro. Outboard actively configured speakers, great sounding to boot, and with a little luck you might be able to find them used within your budget. 

Lastly: Sound Labs ESL speakers, 7ft version on up and with a dedicated sub setup. 

@ozzy62 wrote.

Ok folks, you heard this genius. Sell your horns.

I was about to reply to poster @secretguy on his horn statement, in all earnesty, but yours is better, and not least funnier :)

@deep_333 wrote:

I have heard the Meyer bluehorn. It’s a bit of a shame that most audiophiles will never hear some of these pro audio gems...because, I suppose, it didn’t have the gloss finish for the cabinets, in spite of all the engineering that goes into it.

+1

I can only assume the Bluehorn’s sound fantastic. Going to a cinema that has their EXP range speakers will give an indication, no doubt. 

I currently have some tad ’influenced’ horns.. Pioneer’sXY series (not that cheap) in my lake cabin...with modest electronics tied to it most times. It easily puts most things I heard at axpona this year to shame...if one doesn’t mind the lack of that glossy cabinet finish, that is..

The Pioneer XY-3B speakers are seriously interesting speakers, kudos. I bet they can both bring down the house and be a refined, coherent listen as well?

When Levinson takes a pa speaker, i.e., from that ethos, puts a nice finish on it and sets the price at 200k, it stays backordered with audiophiles running after it.

That’s about the Maggi cube on the mechanisms at play here indeed. 

@devinplombier wrote:

I strongly suspect that I couldn’t live happily with speakers that are down 6 dB at 55 Hz (JBL’s spec), but I respect those who see beyond that. An additional caveat is that I have not auditioned the K2, and I am open to the possibility that their sound somehow transcends their underwhelming spec. Wouldn’t be the first time such a thing happens 🙂

The JBL specs are not really indicative of their true LF-capabilities, certainly not compared to the specs supplied by other hifi speaker manufacturers. Where JBL come from a pro history of relying on honest specs that openly reveal their specific measuring context, most hifi manufacturers on the other hand... do not. That is, the latter is somewhat more "creative" in their measuring approach, so take your own advice and listen to those K2 S9900’s before making any judgements.

Be prepared though - the K2 bass reproduction may not be what you expect; many anticipate a 15" woofer/midrange is about prominent bass wallop and blow your socks off-SPL’s only, but the K2’s produce a balanced, nimble, tuneful, agile and effortless low frequency bass that in many regards is really what "hifi" bass should be about (but mostly is not). Being also that they play up to about 700Hz they cover the important power region without the interference of a crossover point here.

Using a 15" that handles 700Hz while also being called to do LF is no small feat and involves compromises, but the 1500AL woofer (a fantastic piece of engineering in its own right) shows a way to do it with relatively few compromises. Having said that JBL has imposed design limitations on themselves trying to keep a manageable size factor, and to those of us who are not bothered by larger size and that dare to look outside the accepted brands, hifi segment and high price dogma, not to mention embracing actively configured speakers, there are even better options out there - and cheaper to boot.  

@larryi wrote:

I like the sound of the K2’s but, this being a matter of personal taste, I don’t think they are the best sounding horn-based systems.

 +1

@whart wrote:

Reading about the Meyer Sound Bluehorn in the MIX magazine article  (installation at the Fox soundstage for film soundtrack mixing) made me think of the original early efforts to bring sound to film using large horns, eventually augmented by woofers since the "snail" shaped horns did not deliver much bass. The Bluehorn seems to be a modern answer to large scale reproduction, taking advantage of current technology--active speakers with dedicated amps, using DSP to correct time and phase differences, etc. If you consider how well regarded some of the antiquarian theater reproduction systems are today (WE, Klangfilm, JBL), these may be their more modern incarnation.

By all accounts the Meyer Sound Bluehorns are an all-out assault that sonically levels most any other speaker out there - regardless of price (the Bluehorns aren’t cheap themselves at about ~$100k/pair, or even more). However there are quite a few theater reproduction systems of older age and much lesser price that, well implemented, will still do bloody good and more than hold their own against many contemporary, and typically more compact, much more expensive domestic designs. I never heard them, but those Klangfilm horns (of considerable size) should be very well sounding, not least on tube gear. On the other hand I’m very familiar with the Vitavox Thunderbolt's and their quite rare Black Knight horn systems, and they sound great actively configured with high quality, class A/B studio SS amps. Bring on older Electro-Voice and JBL cinema speakers that can sound great as well when actively configured with quality DSP’s (XTA and Xilica). 

@larryi wrote:

A local builder uses quite sizeable horns and compression drivers that can go extremely low.  I recently heard a system where the crossover from compression midrange to woofers was set at 180 hz with a very shallow 6 db/octave slope.  The compression drivers were quite pricey, and if this were my system, I would insist on a higher crossover point and/or a 12 db/octave slope.

That sounds extreme. I’m not aware of compression driver that goes that low, let alone comfortably (not least with a 1st order HP!), but there may be some field coil drivers to challenge that. The permanent magnet JBL 2490H is a  3" exit compression driver that can be crossed at ~300Hz without any issues, and the Community M4 is a 4" exit and ~40 pound beast that can be high-passed at 250Hz. Both have a sensitivity around 115dB’s and 200W continuous power handling, so about the ultimate in high SPL pure midrange compression drivers around. 

And definitely; on the face of it I’d use steeper slopes as well in the context lined out by you, in addition to raising the crossover frequency. 

@devinplombier wrote:

Thank you for your response. Your point about "hifi" bass and what it is / should be about is well taken. I do agree in principle, but I do like some slam too, and I’m not resigned to the two being mutually exclusive.

It’s not that the JBL K2’s don’t have "slam," far from it, but it’s the way they do bass overall that’s interesting and that differs from the typical low efficiency segment of "hifi" speakers with smaller woofers. Where I heard the K2’s I didn’t find them to be anemic in the upper bass/lower midrange per se as pointed to in another post, but rather what struck me was the coherency into the power region here, and how the bass was more articulate, tactile and less "bassy."  

In any event, I was curious about this:

"to those of us who are not bothered by larger size and that dare to look outside the accepted brands, hifi segment and high price dogma, not to mention embracing actively configured speakers, there are even better options out there - and cheaper to boot."

Wondering if you would care to elaborate on some specific options you have in mind? Thanks!

A pair of active Meyer Sound Acheron 80/100 cinema series speakers are a more refined sounding package than the K2’s and Everest’s, and they’re cheaper - even with built-in amps and crossovers. Pair them with the dual 18" Meyer Sound X-800 subs and they’ll run circles around the Everest’s in every regard, still being the cheaper solution. A pair of Stage Accompany M57 speakers, outboard actively configured and with high efficiency subs will leave the K2’s behind in quite a few respects, while being much cheaper. A pair of dual 15"-loaded, actively configured ATC SCM300ASL Pro are great speakers, and cheaper than the K2’s even with ATC outboard amps and crossovers. My own setup of outboard actively configured EV cinema speakers with large format horns, JBL alnico tweeters and tapped subs do things a pair of K2’s and Everest’s can’t equal - way cheaper, and yes, you’ll have to take my word for it. Vitavox Thunderbolt and Black Knight systems, outboard actively configured and horn subs augmented are dynamite setups. There are many more solutions, but what goes through it all is that they’re actively configured.