Speaker wire is it science or psychology

Good post Metaphysics; I barely know a capacitor from a dipstick, but I can easily tell differences between wires just by listening, at least when differences exsist within the 20HZ to 20KHZ range. There is nothing unusual or exotic about my abilities either-- many audiophiles can readily do it. Learning critical listening skills is very helpful in being able to do this however. You should try it rather than spending your time debating it on-line. Cheers. Craig.

Great post Redkiwi. Steve; as I remember it, the decibel is defined as a "just noticeable difference" (JND) in loudness between two sounds. And that sound pressure level (SPL) or decibels is commonly called "volume" in popular terminology. In other words it totally relies on human hearing and perception. If a sound characteristic as simple and basic as volume is based on human hearing and perception, as opposed to measurement, do you not think that there may be many more-- as yet undefined or quantified characteristis of music (as opposed to just sound). I don't know what they are. Do you? Are you holding out on us? But I come down solidly in the camp that says "there is much to be learned". And until that time comes, like so many other "audiophiles", I intend to trust my own senses. You must trust your senses when you listen to music-- no? Cheers. Craig

........yes, I know that the decibel can now be routinely be measured with simple meters, but my point is that it is based on human hearing and hearing perception. Well, this suggests to me that maybe you should trust more in your senses-- but still be a scientist. Craig

Jostler-- re: what to test. I know what I need-- say it's a pre-amp, I narrow the list by price, features, tube vs SS maybe even appearance (or other things, eg maybe some dealers I like), and Viola' I've got a "short list". This is pretty quick and easy to do-- in fact you come across as a pretty intelligent person, so I feel sure you've done it-- many times too. I wouldn't even want to test every pre-amp available as that would make it a job. About ICs, I called The Cable Co., they made some recommendations, considered what I knew and what I wanted and sent me five different ICs to audition. Maybe I was lucky, but I found ones I liked with the first batch. I certainly did hear differences among similarily priced ICs, and they were all name brands and I had no reason to prefer one over another. I just want good satisfying music. It doesn't have to be as complicated as you seem to be trying to make it. But if you're a "scientist and just want to ferret out the absolute truth of the issue, well don't let audiophiles take the fun out of it for you. Investigate all you want-- and enjoy yourself. I just want good music. Craig.

Stevemj; it's a shame that you're unable to trust your own senses. Craig

Hi Stevemj; ears are connected to brain-- brain does all interpretation (perception) of sound (see your 3/24 post). We all know this-- don't we? I choose to trust my hearing, including perception of such, and my common sense. Respectfully, you seem to want to tie all this up into a tidy scientific package, when personally I think listening to music is much, much more complex and can't be relagated to a neat little "formula" or "procedure".

You (seem to) want to approach selecting wires based solely on science. I want to select wires based on the much more precise, and broader perspective of music appreciation, or "art". I continue to maintain that both are necessary parts of our lives, but I have enough confidence in my own senses that I can select wires without getting too bogged down in engineering. I have strong interests in both art and science. If you value art at all, I think we could get along. Cheers. Craig

Detlof, Kat; thanks for the kind words. Cheers. Craig

Hi 702; Good post. I agree 100% that I would like to be able to accurately measure more-- it's just that we can't so I resort to much that is more "psychological" in nature, ie how does one measure enjoyment? We have to listen to make that judgement, IMO.

Buying decisions have to be made to get us anywhere as music lovers, and as science can only get us so far, we have to take the necessary steps beyond science to put together a musically satisfying stereo system. Using our senses-- including common sense, also very much makes us an integral part of the process.

I admire the accomplishments of scientists and engineers as without them, we'd have no stereo equipment or recorded music, but without art (music) there would be no need for stereo it. Speaker wires are not even the tip of the iceberg in this issue, IMO.

I was a Forest Soil Scientist for 32 years, and as such I did a great deal of landslide investigation(s)-- used state of the art models etc. But at the end of the day when the Manager had to make a decision about building a road, or logging a timber sale, it virtually always came down to "my professional judgement" to make a recommendation because we never had enough research, studies, information etc. There was was not time, money, or capabilty to do the research we really needed/wanted to make even 75% accurate predictions.

And so it is with audio. And sorry for the diversion. When the scientific info. is available I will be most happy to use it and see if it measures up to my listening standards. We had a rule of thumb-- no one ever has all the research/information he wants. --didn't intend to get so carried away. Whew! Craig.

Hi Katharina-- thanks for the kind words. Cheers. Craig

702; I use Shell gas too, small world-- $1.47 per gal. It's a way to save money to upgrade my amps! Thanks. Craig