Speaker size and soundstage


Question: for floor standing speakers, how does speaker size affect sound stage, bass response, and the depth of music?

I’m searching for a new speaker, and just tested Dynaudio Contour 30 against Tekton Electrons (16x18 room with cathedral ceiling). Tekton’s are bigger (48 vs 45 high, and 10 vs 8.5 wide, about the same depth) and had a much larger sound stage and greater dynamics and depth. Tekton’s as a rule are much bigger than most other brands, which can be imposing in a room, but the size must equate to a greater sound stage. 
But can a smaller tower be designed to achieve the same sound stage and bass depth of a bigger speaker? If so, what what speakers pull this off?
w123ale

Showing 6 responses by mijostyn

w123ale, you have to close your eyes when you listen to remove visual ques from the equation. Tektons have a terrible image. Stay away.
There are only two sizes of sound stage, point source and line source. Line source speakers of which there are very few which are truly full range produce a large up front sound stage. Point source speakers, of which there are many produce a smaller "miniature" sound stage. 
You can adjust the situation somewhat with speaker spacing and listening position distance but if you like sitting in the first 10 rows you need to search for a line source speaker or partial line source speaker like Magnapans or any number of ESLs. The only full range line source that I know of on the market right now is the Sound Labs 845 or 945. 
Point source speakers are a dime a dozen, you have to chose your own poison.
Tektons, at least the ones I have heard image poorly. But so do a lot of speakers. This is political incorrectness at it's best but, most people have never heard a system that images at the level the source is capable of and that includes those that would characterize themselves as audiophiles. They parrot the terminology used in the literature which is frequently stupid like "pace" and "timing" and think that echo is the third dimension. It is not. Some speakers like the Tektons are incapable of the best image by design. But, many are capable if managed correctly. What is correctly? The speakers have to be set up in a symmetrical situation.
All first reflections need to be dampened with sound absorption. The speakers have to be within 1 dB of each other from 100 Hz to 10 kHz.
If they are not all is not lost. You will have to apply digital EQ to make it so. This also allows you to adjust the overall frequency response to produce the sound you like. Doing all of this does not insure you will get the best image. That depends on the speaker's design particularly the crossover. How do you know if you have the best image or not? You have to have heard a system that images at this level. Once you do you will never forget it. If you do not have it now it is all about the speaker and the room. If you are sure you have the room treated correctly then you need to change speakers. I can count the speakers on one hand that I have heard make the magic. Most of the speakers that I have owned did not and only two have really had it. 




Go Mahgister! I am impressed.

I am; "Ignorant, arrogant, indiscriminate, egotistical, boring, grey and stupid." I don't think you missed a thing. 

I have no idea why you would expend so much energy on an idiot like me. Seems like a waste of time. 

In the end Mahgister all one has is experience. Whether or not that experience is applicable to others is for them to decide. I stand firmly behind everything I said. If someone can show me I made a mistake I will be more than happy to apologize.  
I have listened to Moabs and examined the enclosure construction with a woofer removed not to mention the design issues are obvious to look at.
IMHO it is a speaker designed t do one thing and one thing only, make as much money as possible. They certainly did not image well when I heard them and I do not think you can get them beyond what I would call standard imaging.

Next, I think your description of what I said is a bit harsh.
 Unless the recording engineer resorts to studio hocus pocus all instruments and voices are recorded within the confines of two channels. If the engineer mixes an instrument hard left (nothing to the right) that instrument will appear to come directly from the left speaker. It is impossible under normal circumstances for an engineer to mix an instrument beyond the confines of the two channels. The only way that an instrument can appear to come from outside those boundaries is if enough early reflected sound comes back to the listening position from outside those boundaries moving the image to the outside. So by definition you have acoustic interference and distortion of the signal. Ideally that should not happen. It is a problem that needs to be fixed.  This is different than ambience extending outside the boundaries of the speaker, the sensation of being in a large venue or room other than the one you are in. That information is low level and the late reflections in the room send it back with even more delay simulating a room that is even larger. So, your soundstage extends into the larger venue and you feel as if you are right there in front of the stage. Very cool when it happens. But, instruments do not come from beyond the speakers. If they do you have an acoustic problem as nothing else in my experience will do that except maybe a vivid imagination.
I prefer terms that actually describe what is happening. Saying a turntable has good pace to me is ..rather ridiculous. The pace and/or time is determined by the musicians. It is part of the art of music and determines the feeling of the song or music. Nothing in the audio chain is responsible for this unless it is malfunctioning. A turntable or speaker can be dynamic. I know exactly what that term means. Sometimes it is difficult to describe what you are hearing which to me means you have to be even more careful in the way you describe it. 

Peace and love  
Mahgister, I did not miss that fact at all. I went out of my way to explain it.
The mastering engineer can mix any sound/instrument recorded in only three ways all the volume in the right speaker, all the volume in the left speaker then anywhere in between. Unless he resorts to staggering phase and other tricks the sound is going to come from the right speaker, the left speaker and anywhere in between. If an instrument images outside of the stereo pair it might sound cool but there is an acoustical problem with the room. This is the only way that can happen under normal circumstances. Forget about how the recording was made although it is nice to get the acoustic ques of the venue into the recording it is because of their low levels that reflections can compete with them and make it seem as if you are in that venue but the high level of the instruments themselves should always come at or between the speakers. There is no other way to mix them without tricks. This is not IMHO Magister is a matter of fact. 
In front of or behind the speakers is fine although in my experience the instruments and stage tend to be behind the speakers but this is volume sensitive and will vary depending on the type of speaker you have.
If you like the experience you have with instruments imagining outside of the speakers then don't change anything. But, it is an aberration of acoustics and not a product of the reproduction process in 2 channels.
I suppose you can get this in a 5.1 system but I wouldn't know as I have never taken them seriously. It is really only useful for theater. Getting two speakers to work in unison is more than enough.