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Speaker shootout update; aggressive treble eliminating some (fairly?)

I've been trying out speakers in a complicated shoot out, both bookshelves and towers — all in my home with my gear. I'm looking for speakers obtainable up to about $4k but could go up (or down) a bit if the right thing came along.

Basic facts: All speakers were run in at least 100 hours. Room is 27 x 14 x 6.5 ceilings. Powering with all QS tubes, 60w, NOS, tube R2R dac, and decent cables. No terrible reflection points; room not overly live or dampened. REL R 328 sub available but I did most listening without it.

Recent auditions, type:

Klipsch RP 600-M (budget singleton of the group)
Fritz Rev Carbon 7 mk II (bookshelf, 2 way, soft dome)
Focal 936 (tower, 3 way, inverted metal)
Martin Logan Motion 60s XTi (tower, 3 way, AMT)

Coming soon:

Salk SS 6M (bookshelf, 2 way, beryllium)
Dynaudio Evoke 30's (tower, 3 way, soft dome)

Let me speak just to the problems, rather than what was good about the speakers. So far, I've found the Klipsch, Focal, and especially the Martin Logans were all too bright — forward, aggressive, "turn it down" treble.

The ML's were the most impossible to tame and hardest to listen to on more tracks. (I did a lot of hanging of towels and other dampeners and other soft things to try to see if I could bring them to heel. I varied the recordings used. Changed cables/wires. No luck.)

The Focals were occasionally too bright; their bigger problem was a bit too much energy in my small listening space. They were better when I plugged their ports with socks.

I'm looking forward to how the next two speakers sound. The Dynaudio towers, I notice, are 10 inches shorter and half the weight of the other towers; not sure what that might mean, but it could just be right size for my space. I'm looking forward to seeing if the Salks bring more detail to the treble without also being too rolled off or harsh.

Hearing is very personal for physiological and taste reasons. However, if anyone has any thoughts about why I might be experiencing some of the phenomena I am (harsh treble, especially) based on my room or gear, etc., that might help me understand factors I'm not fully appreciating. Thanks.


hilde45

Showing 3 responses by oldhvymec

oldhvymec
5,101 posts
 
OP, I was thinking about a 6.5" lid. In the seated position. 
Your ears in a normal chair, are pretty close to the ceiling.

That's a BIG problem. I would try a low rider chair, just to see
if that would tame a lot of the HF, issues your speaking of.

I would also pitch the top of the speakers. forward, 5-15 degrees.

Eric, said in the first post (and I agree,100%) room treatment of a particular, and really peculiar, type is needed. You have a very different room, for sure.

You say your pretty new to the HiFi world, understand like most, I had to learn 40 years ago, too. TREAT the area your in FIRST, as much as you can, then place as best you can.  

Your speakers, or your ears can't be that close to a border... HEAVY (right) over your head defusion, or you'll boil your ears. Stay away from clad wire. Silver over copper, can be REAL bright, with ANY hard dome.. Pure copper, pure silver... Just not as bright.. Soft domes are not as bright, GOOD planars are not bright. 

There are a lot of ways to tame "Bright", normally it's not the speaker as much as the, room, weird cables, and roll a signal valve or two.
I know my valve units VERY well.. Pretty easy to adjust, "Bright" in or out of my units..

Regards
oldhvymec
5,101 posts
 
In other words, I've put too large speakers, too high up in a room with low ceilings. I've created an acoustic challenge that makes it seem to be about the material the tweeter are made of — but that is just a small part of the equation. That is what a bunch of the really smart comments on this thread add up to, as I synthesize them.

Stick with it OP.. LOL you move that tweeter away from boundries it will work a lot better, You see ditusa post lay the JBLs on there side. Same kind of deal.

You're much better off getting to know your room, and going from there.

I know the perfect speaker for that room. The problem is finding them.
VMPS, 626R, with 40oz 6.5 wcf.  A few were made, people don't hardly sell them..

So I'm perfectly clear, I haven't heard ONE of the speakers your talking about.. But I do know what will work in that room... and BIG ain't it...
Being able to clock the tweeter, from horizontal to vertical, is an option you might want to look at too. You could tape the top half off for a test. Like a ribbon/planar with wave guides. Again a "TIP" forward, lower the speaker stand, lower your seated position, clocking the tweeter.  Don't cost much...

Regards
oldhvymec
5,101 posts
 
The room is tough, but you understand, how important it is to address, that is the key.. As much "CORRECT" room treatment, as you can handle. It's gonna be right over your head and corners, for sound anyways. Don't go to many directions.. Most speakers will work, just not to tall of a speaker, MTM will work better, if you can clock the tweeter, that's a big plus too.

Regards
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