Speaker shootout update; aggressive treble eliminating some (fairly?)

@corelli,


'Many years ago bought a pair of Def Tech BP-10's following an all to quick audition. They were bright. I had 6 CD's that sounded great. The rest not so much. Learned to hate them. They did not "break in" nor did my ears adjust. When you have a speaker like this, it is sheer lunacy to try and spend huge amounts of money to tame a speaker you don't even like in the first place. WHY WOULD SOMEONE EVER DO THAT?

By doing some careful research I am amazed how you can often find what you love without carting numerous speakers home (pity those dealers). We should all agree that a Klipsch is going to brighter than a Sonus Faber. Now what you love is up to you. So with careful discussion with other audio friends who owned both Magnepan 1.7's and then Tekton DI's, I confidently ordered up. And not only did I LOVE the DI's, but they did exactly what others had said they did.

So do some homework and don't waste time on stuff doomed to fail. Tonal balance and some other qualities will remain a constant no matter what room and what gear you pair them up with. I'll bet with careful research and discussion you can find a speaker you love in one or two tries. Then address placement and room treatments. Then look at associated gear and cables.  If your electronics are staying put, then obviously that has implications in what speakers will be good candidates as well.'



My experiences too.

I've never had much luck with 'correcting' speakers that had serious treble issues, so I don't really much faith in the difference that placement, amps and cables could make.

I once had a pair of Ruarks that sounded wonderfully vivid and dynamic - an explosion of sound. I would have loved those speakers but for the treble which considerably overstepped into harshness on more than a few recordings. 

It was a difficult decision to sell them on as they were doing so much right - but just one all too obvious thing wrong.

Yes, I could have attempted to modify the crossover myself but my knowledge and mental abilities strongly advised against it.

I believe the OP is trying his very best to avoid 'stuff doomed to fail' whilst at the same time trying to come to terms with which of the inevitable compromises he will have to ultimately accept. Great stuff.

@hilde45,

Great post. The issue of harsh treble is one that’s very important to me when assessing any new speakers. I know I cannot live with speakers which have obvious treble issues. I say ’obvious’ because in my experience ALL loudspeakers have SOME treble issues - yes all of them.

For example, I heard some Kerr Acoustic K320 floorstanders which had according to their site have a 2” True Ribbon tweeter with 0.027g diaphragm mass extending all the way to 45kHz, and they had admirable treble with no obvious nasties. Was the treble perfectly clean? No, it wasn’t. Not nearly as clean as I would have liked. Why was that? I don’t know.

My Rega RS1s have a specially vented domed treble unit allegedly giving them greater headroom from distortion, but are they totally clean? No, they’re not. Very good and with no constantly edgy unpleasant treble issues but not perfectly clean, far from it.

I know that some claim the treble of the Harbeth SLH5s aluminium dome to be inferior to that of the M30/M40s which share the same SEAS fabric tweeter. Yet others say they can’t hear any problems.

I guess the perfect tweeter has not yet been built, nor the perfect crossover. I know that some tweeters cannot be crossed too low without distortions appearing at that point eg on certain male vocals.

The way that a tweeter is mounted to the baffle also appears to be a factor in how clean it will sound.

British reviewer Noel Keywood used to complain that the majority of speakers he tested had their frequency response tilted upwards to get more immediate attention during auditions. It would also give them a bright sound which some would eventually find very tiring.

Sometimes treble issues can be down to the recording and the way it was miked etc, but that’s rare and not the speakers fault.

As far as I’m concerned no tweeter is as clean and life-like as I’d prefer, but then I’ve not heard the latest beryllium or diamond domes, and don’t have to decide exactly where to put the crucial crossover point.

Anyway, thanks for posting as this is the kind of real world experience many will find useful when drawing up potential shortlists. Especially those who are particularly sensitive to treble issues.

I recently read a review for the Graham LS5/9f by Wojciech Pacuła which might be highlighting the extent of this problem. 

It was originally posted by @highend666, and here’s a direct quote.

’It is much easier for me to say who will NOT like it. The Grahams will not be liked, I think, by those who like highly detailed sound. The LS5/9f will not offer it. Also those who like a rigid, clear attack and precise sound will not be satisfied. These speakers will not be their first choice. They won’t also fulfil expectations of those for whom the bass must be perfectly controlled at all costs.

Grahams don’t do that.

They do something completely different: they are unbelievably natural’

http://highfidelity.pl/@main-1002&lang=en