You could always add them to your virtual systems page! |
I’d be fine with swaping for a bit in a few months once the honeymoon period has worn off for you. I’d imagine that the Salks have more bass simply because of the size of the cabinet. It would be interesting though. Same tweeter, both utilize a paper style midbass close in size, yet I think they would sound different simply because of different crossovers and different size cabinets. I’d be interested to see if the Fritz are more sensitive.
SB acoustics makes some nice drivers. The 6” carbon driver Fritz is using, and the Satori midbass that you have are really beautifully built drivers. Good quality stuff.
There’s other good drivers out there too from Seas, Scan Speak, Morel, Vifa, Raal; as you move up the line they go from good to great!
But BE tweeters are always expensive and towards the high end of the series of a manufacturer. I had Paradigms with BE tweeters, and have heard Focals and Revels with BE tweeters and liked them all. |
Great advice Lemonhaze!
Giks 244 panels are 4x8x4” made with ownes corning I believe. Anyhow, they work great Hilde45. You ought to grab 4 of them to start. Hang 2 on the ceiling above your speakers using the mirror trick. When you order the Gik 244 panels buy 2 “cloud mounting brackets” for mounting 2 panels to the ceiling. I’d recommend using 1 panel directly in between the speakers and one panel directy behind you.
The 244 panels are considered bass traps. They’ll tighten up your bass and make it better defined along with helping with decay times! You can order them with scatter plates for some diffusion and a better look, and you can also have art printed on them too so they look nice. Maroon Bells centered between the speakers would look nice.
Glad you like the Salks! They are keepers it sounds like. |
Hi Hilde45! Good to see where you are at in your speaker journey. Thanks for keeping us updated.
The new Carrera BE’s use the same tweeter as the Salks you have coming. They offer loads of detail without being too bright. They’ll need to be burned in for quite awhile though to come to their full potential. The Salks will go through some funky changes... too bright, too dull, not enough bass. Remember, your burning in new drivers and new crossovers.
Have the Carbon 7’s been your Favorite this far? There’s a pair of pre owned LS7R’s for sale. You might ask Fritz how those compare to the Carbon 7’s soundwise.
TheDyn’s will have great bass and sound really pretty nice overall. They are a bit dry for my tastes but they are pretty nice speakers.
My guess is that the Salks are going to do it for you. I wish you had the chance to audition the Carrrras though. Withthe 7” Revelator and Fritz’s crossovers, I think it would have been an ideal match for your tubes.
I really do think though that you’re going to really like the Salks, with that paper midbass giving you a natural tone and the beryllium tweet giving you loads of detail, they should be the best sounding speakers out of what you have auditioned.
The BE tweets sound quite different from the soft domes though so if you don’t prefer them, I’d go for the best soft domes you can. That might be the Carbon 7’s, the LS7R’s or an esotar dynaudio tweeter, or something with a Seas Excel. |
Interesting. I didn’t realize there were 2 different satori BE tweets. I just looked at mine and have the neodymium instead of the ferrite. Whew!
Hilde, BE tweeters are awesome! They are detailed like the metal domes you have been listening to but have much less fatigue and aren’t too bright.
Have you ever heard any Beryllium tweeters yet?
And also, are the Fritz Carbon 7’s your favorite this far amongst the speakers you have auditioned? |
Its my opinion that you just find those speakers too bright. Your ap cables are neutral or warm in my experience with them.
You ought to get 2 gik 244 or 242 panels and hang them on the ceiling above your speakers.
Cables, room treatments, speaker placement isn’t going to get you there. You need to find a speaker that you like. It will in my guess be a soft dome or the Beryllium tweets in the Salks. The BE tweets are definitely brighter than silk though, but if you are after the detail of the other hard domes, you may end up with BE. BE and tube rolling may be the way to go. |
Being sensitive to bright speakers isn’t a bad thing. Many people like bright speakers because at first, and for shorter listening sessions they have more sizzle. I think many manufacturers voice their speakers this way because in a short listening session at a brick and morter store, when a/b’ing them they’ll win out.
its like looking at tv’s. If one has really vivid colors you may like it as opposed to another that is a bit duller but that vividness / brightness wears thin after an hour or so.
Speakers that are darker sounding or more laid back have a more lasting quality in my opinion. Speakers that don’t grab your attention are usually the ones that you can listen to for hours and the good ones will lure you in.
I also think that it costs a lot of money / research to produce a speaker that is laid back but that still offers detail, thats why many manufacturers just crank up the highs and lows in order to sell speakers in b&m stores where quick a/b comparisons will be made.
I agree, and stated twice now, that 2 244 or 242 panels above your speakers will help but the speakers are the main culprit. The rest of your system is either neutral or warm, as stated by another member earlier.
This may all be solved once you get your Salks. They should be the ticket!
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Some 244 or 242 panels above your speakers will help a little bit.
Your issue is that you are sensitive to overly bright speakers. If you go dyns, try to get something with the esotar tweeter, not the esotec. I’m not sure that you have enough power to make the dyns sing though.
The Carbon 7’s you’ve been listening to have a nice Scan Speak air circ soft dome tweeter. It will probably be on par with just about any other soft domes out there.
The BE tweeter is going to offer up lots more detail without being harsh or overly bright. I’m very similar in that I can not stand hard domes but at the same time I love Beryllium.
I would even go so far as to say that if you do end up not liking the salks, which I highly doubt, the Fritz Carrera BE’s may be your ticket. They will play very nicely with your tubes and they have an awesome, natural organic sound with great air and detail up top.
Something to take into consideration, and something that others here are more knowledgeable about than I, when an impedance curve drops dowm from 8 ohms to 4 ohms, if your amp doesn’t double down in power (100 watts at 8 ohms, 200 watts at 4 ohms), it will make the speaker sound bright.
Honestly, the Fritz Carreras are probably the best speakers for your tastes. If you aren’t smitten with the Salks, have Fritz send you a pair of Carreras.
Lastly, you really should strap on some headphones and google frequency sweeps. Check your hearing to see whats going on. Doing that was a real eye, er, ear opener for me. The sweep should stay the same volume and centered throughout the range. For me, I have hearing loss in my right ear through a certain range but I am also highly sensitive to 2khz, 6khz and 10khz with no hearing above 15khz.
I remember when we first started talking months ago that I had recommended that you check out Monitor Audio Golds with the ribbon tweeters. I think that might be something else you look at. They are very detailed while being laid back as well. They are beautiful and built extremely well too. Theres some gold gx 200’s in parker for sale on C-list. Maybe you can arrange an audition.
I really think though that they soft domes aren’t going to get you the detail that you are after. You will need to go Beryllium, amt, ribbon or planar. The nice thing about ribbon and planar is that the limited vertical dispersion will actually be beneficial for you with your lower ceilings.
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@kenjit , do you get your shoes custom fitted to your feet? How about your pants? Shirt? |
Dude, you’ve got a great room apart from the ceilings. I’d change the whole orientation Brother. You need to set your room up long wise, if that makes sense.
Is the room strictly yours and mainly for listening purposes?
you should set your equipment up where the bed is and put the bed wherever it ends up after you’ve set up your listening area. If it were me, I’d buy 6 panels and get to rearranging. Acoustic treatments come up on c-list sometimes but sell quick. I’ll keep my eyes peeled for you.
I’d put the system where the bed is. Pull them3 feet out from the front wall, 2 feet from the side walls and sit 9-10 feet back. The room is a big part of what you hear with a system and you’ve got some great dimensions apart from the low ceiling but no biggie.
If I were able to drive I’d bring the carreras up and help you re arrange but my clutch leg is down and I can’t drive 🤷🏼♂️
I helped a friend (well a few friends) and my brother with a set-up and they are pretty much identical. Kef LS50w’s and a sub. My friends set-up is one of the best I have heard, a 9 from 1-10, and my brothers is a 6. Same set-up, different room and execution.
speaker placement, listening seat placement make huge differences. You could have your speakers pulled far away from any walls and have a listening position far from any walls as well and thats really the direction you should go, IF you can.
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Dude, stuff that bed in that far back cutout, get a nice down comforter and pillows and your guests will thank hou for a properly set up 2 channel stereo, lol.
serioudly, how often do you have guests? How often do you listen to your stereo? Besides, you don’t want them gettin too comfy; they may never leave.
I think the issues you were having were tweeter material, not tweeter distance to ceiling.
Slap your rig on that wall where the bed is currently. Pull the speakers waay out from the front wallso you get a nice deep soundstage. Pull them 2 feetfromthe sidewalls. Put your sweet spot equal distance from the speakers in relation to the distance between the speakers. Play with toe in.
I’m surprised no one has mentioned trying to flip the bookshelf speakers upside down too. Another thing to add, don’t put a coffee table in between you and the speakers. Start looking at how sound is going to reflect off every wall, floor, ceiling, table etc. Its best to start with a naked room, treat the walls, set up your stereo and dial it in, then start putting furniture back in one piece at a time.
If you are trying to accomplish the best possible sound with what you have, you have to be willing to make compromises with the other things in the room before making compromises to your stereo set-up.
Anyhow, have fun and report back!
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Oh, to add to the Fritz info, I’ve also been tempted to buy those Ls7’s for sale right now... please, someone else buy them so I don’t have to eat Ramen for the rest of the year!
He did switch to the SB Satori BE’s due to availability issues with the Transducer Labs BE, not covid related. I’ve heard both, I own the newer ones with the SB’s, and they sound nearly identical. Fritz is the Man and I love his speakers. He’s great to work with and has a true passion for building awesome speakers. He’s not in it for the money, fame or girls either, lol, just a genuinely awesome guy. I can’t say enough good things about him or his speakers. The more time I spend with the Carreras, the more I love them.
I think Mahgister was just sticking up for MC in saying that you can squeeze more out of any product if you are willing to do so, and I agree. I think in orser to get to that top level of sound, you need to start doing some crazy things, and its not always about more money. I think MC knows what he is talking about and is extremely helpful to anyone who asks. He can come off as conceited sometimes, which is a shame because overall, I think he’s actually a good guy.
And last, I’m not saying that changing the orientation of your set-up is going to solve the issue you are having with bright speakers but it should just sound better all the way around. I’m guessing that the majority of people here have their systems setup on the short wall, not the long. I would even go so far as to say that your low ceilings aren’t causing the brightness problem you are experiencing. I think that is due to speakers that are bright or that those speakers need more current. I also think that you, like many others here, don’t love bright speakers. Bright speakers sell in 5 minute demos, not 5 hour long listening sessions.
You may prefer really laid back speakers like Harbeth. Just because they are laid back, does not mean they lack detail.
It’s my guess though that you’re going to love the Salks. They are on a higher level thananything you’ve had in your room yet. When will they be there?
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... and I quote “And last, I’m not saying that changing the orientation of your set-up is going to solve the issue you are having with bright speakers” |
The issue you have with those bright sounding speakers is that they are bright sounding speakers!
When are the Salks coming?? |
Interesting how many of us suggest lengthwise vs widthwise. I was also wondering if a lack of lows is contributing to the brightness. You’d think though with how close he is to the back wall when setup widrhwise, he’s have exaggerated bass. I wonder if he’s got a suckout like suggested. Hilde did mention to me that he felt like the lows on the Carbons were rolled off so I’m wondering if that is the suckout or the overall size of his room and the little carbons not being able to pressurize / grip the room bass wise.
His AP speaker cables and front end should not be the culprits. I don’t have any experience with those focals or ml’s he was experiencing the brightness from...
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I should add ghat I meant I don’t think his front end is the culprit in the brightness but it could be an impedance / current / power mismatch with the speakers and his front end. I also have very little experience with tubes. |
Hilde, will it not let you upload the actual links? I’m not able to open them even replacing “dot” with “.”
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good recommendation on the timbernation 👍 There racks and speaker stands look really nice |
Good to hear the outcome Hilde!
Im a big fan of Beryllium tweeters as well. I feel like they have the detail, clarity and sparkle I like so much but they aren’t so in your face / fatiguing as titanium. I also notice sibilance with Titanium that isn’t there with Beryllium.
The comparison between the evokes and the Salks wasn’t fair. The esotar tweeter is more in line with your BE SB’s. I’d bet that you’d still prefer the BE sound signature over soft domes though, some people do, self included.
I noted earlier in this thread (I believe) that you wouldn’t need a sub really, if you had some good bass response from a stand mount speaker, which it sounds like you have accomplished that. I have had many expensive, high end subs in my room and most of the time I prefer no sub. REL’s are so subtle as well but I do love them!
Just to add a bit to the previous post about the Fritz Carrera BE’s, I’ve had my pair for awhile now and just love them. Fritz is now using the Beryllium SB acoustics tweeter in the Carreras. Its the same tweeter as in your Salks (if you have the neodymium magnet version).
Anyhow, happy listening! |
Wow, beat the Monitor Golds? Maybe I’ve overlooked those ML’s.. |
