Speaker/Room help needed


Hi,

I�m in need of help setting up a new dedicated listening room that has proven very difficult to setup, and I�m really starting to get frustrated by not being able to figure this room out! It is a 2nd floor, 14W x 20L x10H room with suspended hardwood floors (a first for me), speakers on the short wall; listening position has to be against the back wall. There is a fireplace directly between and behind the speakers; behind each speaker I have placed a tall bookcase full of books, CD, records and my saxophone. On the left wall are three very large, 3x7 windows covered by light drapes, the right wall has a large sliding wood doors. I have placed small cloth sofas at the first reflection points on the side walls but, with low backs, they may be too short to do real good. I tossed down a sleeping bag on the floor for kicks to absorb some reflections, but will get a proper rug shortly (any suggestions for type?). There is also a 2x4 coffee table in front of my 7ft long cloth listening couch. I prefer as wide of a soundstage as possible, and my speakers, by design, must be at very minimum 8ft apart, which doesn�t make this any easier.

My system consists of:
Full range Von Schweikert VR3�s with Vibrapods underneath (VR4SE�s or VR4JR�s to come)
PS Audio HCA-2 amp
Musical Fidelity A3cr preamp
Marantz SA-14 SACD/CD player (set to �Custom�)
DIY Silver cables and IC�s w/WBT connectors
PS Audio and Belden PCs
Marsh/Monster HTS-2500 power conditioner

I think component isolation may be playing havoc with me as well as I still need to make small amp stands for each component, as all pieces will be placed below & behind the speakers, on the floor, and would welcome suggestions here as well for materials, especially for the Marantz, which is proving stupidly sensitive to isolation. Currently all gear sits on MDF slabs resting directly on the floor.

I currently have the speakers 5ft off the back wall, 2.5ft off the side walls, angled right at my ears. As for my problems specifically: The soundstage is wide and deep with round images, but I have what I can only describe as a midrange suck-out and flattening, which makes vocals appear to be hollow, as is sang though a large tube and then through a sponge, and vocals also reside too far recessed on the soundstage. My new Beck SACD sounds like Eddie Vedder of Pearl Jam stole the mic and that�s not
good! There is no fatigue or brightness to speak of; the bass is most impressive in extension and slam, while articulation of finer detail could be better from maybe 800hz down, as could the openness and air (the SACD player is slightly lacking on the last 2 counts but not to the extent I�m currently hearing). It�s a 100+yr old building but the electrical is maybe ~15yrs old (guess), and I haven�t ruled out power issues yet either but my instincts tell me the room needs help first. I will run dedicated lines shortly.

If there is anything I missed please don�t hesitate to ask. Thanks so much for any suggestions, and the simpler and cheaper the suggestions the better!

Cheers,
Michael
socrates

Showing 1 response by rives

Foreverhifi has already said it: "the room is at least half of the equation." Of course, being in the business of designing rooms, we have believed this from the very beginning and feel that too many audiophiles are being robbed by their room. They could easily invest a small portion in the room and achieve likely the greatest upgrade they could ever imagine--and all future equipment upgrades would be far more significant. Your case is not alone, but at least you recognize the significance of the room.

I've said this in a few forum columns before, but I'll say it again. You have 2 options: DIY or hire a professional. Obviously, we would love for you to hire our group, but we would encourage DIY as well. The worst thing to do is ignore the rooom, which unfortunately is often the course of action.

As to your room, you do have some basic problems. First two of the dimensions are mulitples of each other and 14w having a 2nd mode close to the 3rd mode of 10h is another problem. You likely have some significant bass problems. Now, they may be masked to some degree by other issues, such as not enough high frequency absorption, so things seem somewhat balanced--except that mid range suck out. It's quite possible your midrange is the closest to being correct and it was both the high and low frequencies that were overly accentuated.

This is what makes acoustics somewhat complex and sometimes not that well understood. It's very easy for the ear to be deceived by 2 wrongs that are not making a right. For example, a room with lots of windows and losing bass energy will often be overcompensated by overdamping the high frequencies. Then the highs and lows are in relative balance, but it's still not optimized. I think your case may be the inverse of this.

Our website offers quite a lot of free advice. Please visit the listening room . There are some issues discussed in this tutorial that may be useful to you. One thing I would strongly encourage is taking some basic measurements in the room, even if it's just a plot of frequency response and sound pressure locations, this can help you find some of the largest problems quickly. This doesn't replace taking more sophisticated measurements such as reverberation times, but it does help with many of the basic problems, and is always a good place to start.