Speaker Preferences?

The Sophias are among my favorite speakers, but the Vantage would be a close second for most things. I would say that they need to be positioned right and run with the proper upstreams to get them to sound good (the ML moreso).

Dull would not be the word I would describe them. Unlike other speakers I have heard (Cremona, BW 802D, Wilsons), I feel that the current ML Xstat ESL series speakers (Summits mostly) are less "showy" the first time you hear them. They do not have a truly audible signature to the sound, no "wow" factor aside from the disappearing act. This may be the reason some all it dull.

However, position it right... by that I mean toe them in and get your ears at the right seated height, get some tubes in the system and a good source - wallah... supremely coherent and very musical.

My 2 cents.

BTW, most of the MLs I've heard at dealers sound nothing like their potential... in fact, I wont hide the fact that I find dealers' ML setups sound like crap. Meaning - don't judge them based on hearing them at a dealer.... especially Magnolia/Best Buy. Imagine if you heard the Wilsons at a BestBuy running on an $800 receiver.

Shredder,

I will look into the Aerial 9s... if you were impressed with them and you had ML background, it may be something I'd like to audition. Just for kicks. And if they are truly better, well... que sera sera... this is life.

Joey

J,

You're meaning to tell me that Tweeter knows how to setup the Summit better than a Summit owner who has spent the last year tweaking the system?

You're telling me that Magnolia is better at setting up MLs when all they do is pile them against the wall along with 5 other speaker pairs?

Come on now, MLs arent sold like your Wilsons where the dealer gets a huge amount of setup training. ML dealers do not go to the buyer's house to set up the speakers, unlike Wilson speakers so that's out of the question.

Bottomline, you can't reliably measure the performance of ML speakers from a dealer's demonstration... they are very finicky, right down to the last component. They can sound utterly dull.. or amazingly superb.

"Those seem like even greater reasons to stay away from that speaker line to me..."

Why? Because of the setup? Set it up right and they sound fantastic, to me atleast. Set them up wrong and they sound lackluster. You of all people should know that by now, imagine how much you spent in your room and the effort that goes into "voicing" your WP8s in your room by the dealer and by you. You didn't just plop them there did you?

Much like the Wilsons or any other hi-end brand. If you set it up wrong, there goes the stage, there goes the timbre, there goes the imaging....

If a speaker's finicky positioning scares you, then don't get it. There's a lot of other brands out there.

I can't believe we're correcting rhymes now.

JKalman,

If I had the money to get a Rives room, it would be much easier to set these up.

It's all about how you approach it, if you find tweaking is a negative, then don't tweak it. You wont get the best sound out of an ML because there is SO MUCH potential there. If you're the type of guy who just leaves well enough alone, not only is ML not ideal for you, but perhaps hi-end audio in general.

Most change components, move things around, add a few room treatments here and there.... I don't know of any audiophile who just leaves it as is from the getgo.

All I'm saying is that there is more than meets the eye with these MLs, and most dealers (not all) are not setting these up right because of lack of dealer training and lack of care. Whether or not you care to "torture" yourself with it is your prerogative, that's not the moral of the story. Now that I've lived with mine for a year, it takes me not any longer than setting up any other speaker... I know what I like and I know how to make my Summits sound good in terms of positioning. Much akin to you and your WP8, I bet you have more insight into how to set up your speakers in a new room if you had to move... moreso than when you first got them.

So please, dont start with the ?!?... I've been on your side on a lot of things, J.

Joey

Understood J.

But I don't think that MLs are alone in the fact that you have to take the time to position them well. Sonus Faber needs them, Quads need them, Magnepans need them, etc.

The last time I was at a dealer for a Sonus Faber demo, he took a laser guide and adjusted the Sonus Faber speakers with it - pointing the laser guide towards a unified point behind our heads at listening position. Then he began to adjust the rake and everything along with it.

This was a dealer who knew how to set up a speaker.

I asked him how he learned. He told me Sumiko makes sure he sets them up right everytime. He also told me he goes to each house and sets them up.

Reminds me of Wilson dealers really.

Then I go to Tweeter... where all they do is line up the Logans along the wall next to other speakers, usually uneven and one corner is usually the door (i.e. open area). Then people wonder why they sound bad.

It doesn't take long to set up MLs right really. I've played with different positions for about a year now and I have figured out what I find best.

Major toe-in, ear level at mid-panel (possible minor rake forward if seat is too short or far), pull away from wall.

That's pretty much my requirement. So you can see, it takes me 3 minutes to set up a newer ML right... and if you see me at a Tweeter or Magnolia. Usually I end up fixing their placement... probably my neurotic side kicking in.

It really doesn't take long to set these up, not any longer than setting up a pair of good speakers. Every good speaker needs time to be set up.

Joey

I don't think cone head rhymes with "rule".... :).