2. speakers
  3. 178664-33969

Speaker positioning and center image depth

I’ve been in so many conversations with people who boast of the depth of the soundstage from a particular pair of speakers to fall well behind said speakers, and others who claim the sound is very much more forward for some speakers. For me, I’ve found that most times, it just depends on how the speakers are positioned in the room.

I find a combination of just slightly too much toe in and just not enough distance between speakers in relation to the listener create a more powerful and forward center image and potentially a narrower soundstage as the speakers end up not taking advantage of the side walls. On the other hand, having the speakers toed out too little at a larger distance from each other results in a more distant center image and at times loses clarity.

Distance from the walls also makes a huge difference here, as well as how well the room is treated. And there are many variables that will change the way a speaker projects the sound.

Of course, many speakers do a better job of imaging a particular way over others, but I’m not convinced of generalizations made about these projections (how forward vs deep a speaker sounds) in reviews or forum threads. For me, it usually has much to do with how it’s set up in the room.

That said, I do believe some speakers play incredibly large, and others small such that the thresholds (toe in, distances, etc) are all variable, which help a speaker work in some rooms better than others. And of course every speaker imparts it’s own sonic character, some more open and transparent and others more recessed and warm, etc.

I’m curious as to other peoples’ reactions and experiences with regards to speaker depth/forwardness, and if they agree with what I’m finding or if they believe the speaker has a much larger role than the room the way I am describing. I’m always looking to learn more.

 

blisshifi

Showing 2 responses by lanx0003

lanx0003
1,002 posts
 

The golden ratio is significant for the visual art but, imho, not so much for the speaker placement due to the complex interaction between the speakers and the room, room setup and the horizontal dispersion pattern of the speaker drivers especially tweeters. Rather, there is a more flexible tool called LOTS (Loudspeaker Optimization Techniques for Soundstage) introduced by Ron of New Record Day. In my room where the width (W) is 14 ft and the depth (L) is 18 ft, the golden ratio triangle is a special case of the LOTS positions. First, the speaker positions from the golden ratio triangle are within the LOTS tracks (see diagram) without exception (because 0.276W is between W/4 and W/3). Second, in this combination of W and L, the listening positions suggested by these two methods coincide.

Based on my experience, the most probable LOTS positions locate between the minimum distance of 3 ft to both the front / side walls and the vertices of the equilateral triangle. With that being said, you probably do not need to experiment all the way from the front wall to the L/3 position within the LOTS tracks as suggested by Ron. The min. distance of 3 ft is suggested by Tarun of A British Audiophile based on the theory that “any sound that hits your ears from the reflective surfaces that is not delayed by 5 millisecond is perceived as the direct sound.” The speed of sound at the sea level is approximately 1100 ft/sec and the half of the distance travelled in 5 millisecond is just under 3 ft.

So, using these empirical rules, I end up with the speaker positions just a bit wider than the LOTS tracks with slight toe-in. I felt, a bit wider separation between the speakers helps maximize the soundstage (SS) width. I also felt further separation from the front wall gives a bit better SS depth but 3 ft is maximal separation I could live with in my room. So I sacrifice a bit SS depth to make the room more functional for other purposes. Again, it is a trade-off I am willing to live with in my room.

lanx0003
1,002 posts
 

 

@tablejockey

The issue with the golden ratio for which (I sense) you advocate is the extreme confinement of the space (disregard dedicated or not) down to almost near-field listening. Take my room as an example, with the golden ratio rule, the listener is literally 6 ft 3 inch away from the speakers in a 14’ x 18’ size room. Why do you want to confine your listening space down to a 6 ft equilateral triangle, equivalent to 7% of the 14’ x 18’ room space? I sit in the Ikea Pong chair with ottoman and my feet are half way to the speakers. That is insanely ridiculous. I do not enjoy. No one will. Not to mention the SS is not as good as the positions I end up with using LOTS. Have you ever tried yourself I wonder?

To answer your second question, the positions I end up with as shown gives me the widest SS and a bit less SS depth compared to 5 ft setback from the front wall. The center image is focused and instruments and vocal are well separated within the SS.

More to discover