I suspect you have an intermittent problem either with your amp or your speaker....most likely one of the tweeters themselves because they are mechanical and can certainly fail for a variety of reasons (and after all that is what you just got back).
The fact that you are observing differences when you move things around but that you cannot easily conclude where it is coming from is also indicative of a mechanical, heat related or volume level related intermittent failure.
Suggestion: Eliminate what you can, change amp completely (borrow a friends if necessary) and see if it goes away. Try speakers side by side and compare them fed with a MONO signal at various levels (and after enough time for things to heat up to normal operating temperatures.
I see you already suspect the x-over but do not rule out a driver problem...if it is giving a nasty load to your amp then it could cause clipping or IMD distortion and this could show up in tweeter distortion first. |
No. The analysis & conclusion are as clear as mud. |
I have to ask what type of signal were you listening to and was this in a mono or stereo mode? A test tone in mono should be accurate in determining if there is an imbalance.
I would also do the standard drill-clean & check connections & maybe even ohm the cables out to eliminate ancillary gear from affecting test results. |
Please disregard my previous post. I see from your posted system that you have modified the original crossover of the Hales T-5's and have changed the original aluminium tweeter to a Seas Excel Millenium soft dome fabric tweeter.
Your x-over design and fit with the Seas Tweeters might be the problem. It might not show up immediately .....but after a time and driven at high levels the tweeter may get damaged or wear out prematurely if not correctly matched |
I would use a mono source to test the tweeters. There is a slight degree of noise from the right channel that is audible close up at the speaker. Could it just be this noise I am noticing. If two feet back from the speakers I cannot tell them apart and in fact they sound the same even close up at them since I switched the speakers.
Porziob, What do you mean by your statement?Are you saying you think there is obvious fault with my system? I can accept that if that is truely the case. I would think some degree of tolerance is acceptable but at what point is it fault as opposed to acceptable within tolerance differences? |
Driver, the noise difference cannot be detected with test tones.?If sitting in my listening position and play test tones(which I have done) the sound the same either from both speakers to .a central image or from each individual speaker. Somehow I cannot distinguish the the sound differences with test tones. They are at frequencies that sound the same between the two speakers. The noise I think I may be hearing from the right speaker is the type of noise you might experience when turning on a tuner in your system while playing a disc.
It is that type of difference but only noticablbe if critically listening to the two tweeters close right up at them. I am inclined to think that this is normal and within tolerance amp noise issues and perhaps a slight ?(I mean slight)crossover differences that make up for the difference in amp noise in the right channel. Once again please correct me if I am wrong. It's stereo componentry. If broken I will get it fixed. |
Shadorne, you could be right. How would I know?The tweeters both sound the same as I have discovered by testing and swapping them and the problem appears only on the right channel regardless of which speaker is connected to it.You could be right though but how would I know for sure? |
Since it always is on the right channel, I would suspect the amp. If you disconnect the preamp (leaving the spkrs hooked to the amp), that will eliminate anything upstream from the equation.
You can also check your AC, as it can influence the noise floor. The connections at my breaker were not as tight as they should have been & once tightened, the noise I had disappeared. Same thing goes for the outlet.
If you don't know how to do this safely, I would recommend not even trying it yourself. |
Thanks Driver, I've already done what you proposed years ago and then again recently. The slight amp noise on the right channel is there regardless of the preamp attached or not. I know it is the amp but
I know that the X250's do this. It's not just my X250 but is a characteristic of the design. The slight noise can only be noticed if neurotic enough as
I am to listen to the speakers up at the driver to hear if there is noise. Coincidently when I had my Classe CAP150 in another room 30 km away from where I am now it had noise in just the right channel. Same issue with my Classe Ca100 and Classe Ca201. There is something for some reason that these amps all had noise in just the right channel and they were all in different environments and with different associated gear and cables. |
I should mention that I love my Pass gear and if I could change equipment my Pass gear would remain. I might have XA160 monoblocks or something exotic but I like the Pass sound.My point of my posting above is that it is not uncommon for an amp to have a slight noise in the right channel. Come to think of it all my amps regardless of environment or brand or associated equipment did this. |
Mitchb -- either I misunderstood the issue (probably) or there's nothing "wrong" with yr system (hopefully).
Correct me if wrong: using a mono signal OR (particularly) a pure sine, you can discern no differences. (I assume you've tried pink noise and tweet frequencies.)
IF there is SOME difference, then it's due to the tweets --you shouldn't have audible differences coming fm the equip(and asai can tell you don't) -- or you have one damnation of an ear! Unless it's just the connecting wire... |
Gregm,
I think what it is that I noticed is when looking for it and right up to the tweerer I can hear a little noise which sounds almost like rf. It is the noise that is present in the right channel even if only the amp is hooked up to the speakers or the preamp is muted. I get an ever so slight hum from the tweeter/midrange.(this noise is only noticable if you put your ear against the driver 2" away) I think this noise, which is normal, is apparent in the tweeters when listening for it. When I switched the speakers left to right and right to left the difference in my speakers compensated for the difference in my amp. I believe both my speakers and my amp to be within spec and the difference I noticed would probably not be noticed or at least be of concern to most people. Swapping the speakers appears to have balanced out very fine differences in speaker and amp channels. The reason I noticed it before to a larger degree is that I had the cleaner speaker to the cleaner channel of the amp and the less clean speaker to the less clean channel and if the differnce was lets say for example 3% one way and 3 % the other way then I had a difference of6%.By swapping the speakersd the difference is closer to zero as the differences in amp and the difference in speaker are now the same on both sides makingg the sound more balanced. Does this make sense? |
Do you have the volume turned up with no source music playing when making your test?
If so, you will be hearing the noise floor of your system.
It seems quite possible and accceptable that you could have slightly different noise floor levels/signals in one channel versus the other at these kind of extremes (listening at 2" distance with volume turned up). At this extreme, you might be hearing something that is actually 95 db lower than regular amplified music at the amp output and and therefore something which is quite normal in any system and you should ignore.
Once your speakers start playing music at reasonable SPL levels, then your noise floor will jump from ultra low levels of the CD player/amplifier to around 60 db below the rest of the music....So you won't even hear this tiny signal!
Why is this? Typicaly even the best high end speaker/amp combinations, playing at reasonable sound levels, have all kinds of IM, harmonic and other room borne distortions that raise the general noise floor to around 60 db ....unfortunately this is a limitation of mechanical vibrating transducer systems in a room....and you just have to live with it until they invent something better. |
If you have the same problem with different amps,then the problem is elsewhere,cables,pre-amp channel, power cord,bad ground at power source.Keep trouble shooting.
Not trying to be a jerk, but could you have a hearing problem in your right ear?I have less in one ear. |
Lacee, I do have a hearing problem in that my ears go like normal peoples ears go when in an airplane. My ears get blocked if I drive my car. It took me 25 years to figure this out and then I realised I could equalise my ears by pinching my nose and lightly blowing as well as certain jaw movements as in swallowing or yawning can cure. I sometiomes listen to music and forget my ears may be blocked and then when I equalise it's like wow!!!. I know how to equalise now but it was a disturbance not knowing about it for years.
Shadorne, If I listen to the speakers without a source it doesn't matter if my preamp is at 1 or at 25 the noise floor remains the same. It's not bad at all. There is just the slight hum out of the right speaker when right up 2" from the speaker. Very low level. What I was trying to explain is that I think this extra noise in the right channel is what makes the slight sonic differnce between channels. It is ever so subtle and not noticable unless looking for it. It becomes less noticable with meduium to hi volumes. I actually don't play my system that loud ever. No need. It sounds good low or at comfortable volumes without shattering windows. It's sometimes fun to see what the system will do if pushed more than usual but for the mostpart I don't listen loud. I kind of think I answered my own question in that the speakers and the amp are well within tolerance. It was just my initial question of that "Is it normal for two speakers playing a Mono source normal to sound slightly different". I think it is normal due to acceptable tolerances within parts used in products at a certain price point. The channels should sound for the most part the same but there could be slight variences althouigh subtle between two two channels as well as between a pair of speakers. I may be wrong so please set me straight if I'm off base with this one. |
Mitch -- fm yr latest description, there seems to be a very slight difference b/ween the two tweets (or the attendant xover components). The hi fre is probably airborne that's being picked up somewhere. |
Gregm. It would be appeciayted if you could explain what you mean in your above post. One of my tweeters high frequency's are airborn? What do you mean? It's OK if there is error but I don't understand what you mean. The x-overs are slightly different but in a subtle way. Maybe if you explain what you mean I can fix it. Thanks for all your help.
Mitch |
Sorry -- I mean that the HF noise you hear is probably airborne and picked up by the system -- not system generated.
OTOH the difference in sound pressure level fm the tweets would normally come fm the tweets and (more likely) from their attendant xover. IF this isn't noticeable at normal listening --or higher-- volume, leave as is. |
