I'm in the middle of this comparison process, but my MK3 is so new, the tonearm cable is not even broken in.
Comparing before both tables are in IDENTICAL states is a waste of time. Worse, it gives people wrong information about a topic that there is not much data on.
I will say, I'm using identical SME 312S arms, identical AC cables and nearly identical plinths. Still, where the table sits, footers, set up and break in can screw a comparison, that's why I'm so slow to make remarks.
I can give you this, a clean well set up Technics MK2 with everything done right, is so good you may never care about a MK3. There is a possibility the MK3 will beat my MK2 when all is perfect, but until then the MK2 is the highest performance turntable I've ever owned.
From the time I bought my MK2, rebuilt it and our group made comparisons, nine other people sold what they had and went to Technics MK2. Two others went to Technics MK3. |
Lewm,
If you want a MK3, I've been searching for them long enough to be able to direct you to one.
Before you say yes, expect to pay minimum $5000.00 and a high of $10,000.00. A MK 3 at Audiogon a while back was listed $10K, it was supposed to be "new" in box. Occasionally they are at Ebay, but I've seen half a dozen at Ebay with the same tired stolen images and always offered on a hijacked or new account with no feedback.
All MK3 I've been able to find are outside the USA. That does not mean there are none here, but rather I don't know where any are for sale. Maybe Steve Dobbins has one? You might check with him.
If outside the USA, remember you must wire transfer money first and pay shipping. My MK3 came from France and when it arrived at DFW Airport Customs held it.
I drove out, wasted half a day and finally got it out of hock. It was packed pitifully, but thankfully undamaged. It was shipped Schenker Air Cargo, that's probably what saved it. Packed the way it was, if it had been UPS I would have had a pile of junk.
I'm not trying to discourage you, just stating the facts. |
Email me and I will give you names and email. From that point on, you can decide who you want to deal with.
I'm out of it at that point, cover your butt, be cautious and ask questions before you wire money. |
Lewm, all the electrolytic caps in power supply should be replaced. If you do the job with Nichicon and Black Gates performance will go up and cost is still very low.
I got mine from Mike Percy Audio, but there are dozens of suppliers out there that offer caps. |
Microstrip.
The two voltages responsible for operation, +5 volt and +32.5 volt are the only important ones. The strobe is not necessary and most people agree it only adds noise.
I wonder if it would improve performance of MK2 if a tube circuit were designed to replace the stock Technics supply? |
Lewm Albert, Assuming I ever could find a Mk III, does it too have an oiled bearing, and does it require a shipping bracket for transport? There is no ship bracket but the platter must be removed before transport. Oil goes in the spindle at the top edge. There is no easy "marked" oil hole like on the MK2. If you go to Sound Fountain: http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/sp10page.html and scroll down about half way, there is a photo showing where oil goes on a SL1810. The SP10 MK3 is the same place. Before anyone asks, I choose Mobil One 5-30 for both my Technics. Mobil One is synthetic, so it will mix with whatever was there before (if any) and no issues with gunking up. |
Microstrip, Interesting reading.
I don't know how serious I am about building a tube supply for Technics. I'm just a fan of what tubes do, especially in power supplies.
Considering cost of the MK2 it's probably not a wise choice. If the supply cost anything near my custom tube crossover ($3500.00), for a bit more money you could do the MK3. |
I'm on hold for testing until my preamp and phono return from Aesthetix.
I would be very interested what the MK2 does in a slate plinth. |
Now a few questions, one for Mr. Albert Porter (by chance we are colleagues... funny). Is it there any special warning/advice he can give about the center "screw"? You remove a cup and go in with the screw... but what's there (i am still waiting my unit..)? I don't know of a center screw, only the brass rod that contact's the Technics bearing cup to drain. Nothing in my design penetrates the Technics in any way. The screws we choose go from the plinth bottom and into the factory tapped holes. Screws are original thread and non magnetic stainless steel. |
All you'd need to do would be to craft a top cover for the tray of parts that lies underneath in the stock unit. Could conceivably be done without any fancy new electronics. Or could it? Albert, did you think of that? In theory removing the motor and installing in a more secure mounting is a good idea. Maybe I'll do that in the future. Right now I have the best sound I've ever had and with my preamp being upgraded and two new MC cartridges breaking in, I'm up to my neck in testing. |
Any update on new plinth designs or set ups in this thread? Quite a few months have passed since my last comment and since then I've changed out my preamp, phono, cables and phono cartridges. I have two MK3 Technics, a MK2 Technics and completing yet another MK3 plinth. The plinth and electronics were equally stunning upgrades as already posted on my Technics MK3 system thread. I'll just say, you have not heard a MK3 until it's been electrically upgraded and rebuilt. A member of my group has the Steve Dobbins MK3 "nude" and was so taken with my electrical improvements he sent his off to my tech to be rebuilt like mine. |
Hiho,
Lots of ways to do a plinth. I visited Mike about the time Steve delivered the plinth you linked to. Mike himself will tell you that these rebuilt tables will "play with the big boys" and his reference is the Rockport Sirius.
I like Steve's design and others as well. I agree the triangle design posted to that thread is unique, that's why we audiophiles get involved and do these things. |
Lewm and guys
Do you think I should re-cap my SP-10 mkII that is "virtually brand new"? It may be new to you but it's probably 20 years old and those caps are aged and due to fail. Your sound will be better with modern Panasonic FC caps or black gate. Not a lot of money and you can prevent an old cap going and taking out a hard to find part. |
As I posted I hear/heard several Sp-10s configurations in several different audio systems, including at least two-three SP-10s of the people that posted in this thread.
IMHO no one of those SP-10s can even the quality performance of a " naked " Sp-10. Raul, this is why I get upset with you, making a comment like that with absolutely no foundation. It's obvious the comparison was aimed at my system and Steve Dobbins system since you were a guest at both of our homes. How anyone can audition a system with everything different than yours, speakers, amps, cables, cartridge, room treatments and all the other variable. Add in the fact you traveled from another country, had a few hours to listen and without your own version or "mod" of the table is beyond me. I've ask your advice on moving magnet cartridges since you have so much experience with them but when you post something so off the wall as you have, I begin to question your test methods and the validity of your opinion. Based on what you've posted it appears Hiho is wrong, Kaneta is wrong, Steve Dobbins is wrong, Mike Lavigne is wrong and I'm wrong. Reminds me of Jimmy Durante dancing with the Radio City Rockettes when he looks into the crowd and says "What do you know, they're all out of step but me." |
the SP10 has so much damn torque that you would think you really need something massive to hold down the turntable to sink all that vibration. Didn't Mark Kelly tell us that Sansui experimented something like this about that return torque that's causing the turntable cabinet to color the sound? Absolutely I agree that if Raul or anyone else prefers the sound of "naked," that's fine, but chassis rotation in response to motor correction is precisely what I'm hoping to eliminate. The only question for me is how far you must go before no more improvement can be had. On my MK2 Wenge plinth and my MK3 Ebony I experimented with various isolation feet and the roller types low friction overcame the plinth mass and allowed the chassis to respond to the energy, making for the analog version of "digital jitter." This convinced me that the chassis must not move, even microscopically. The only two options I've found that achieve this and still provide "isolation foot improvement" is (1) Still Point system with threaded riser, (2) A military sheet material I've been experimenting with some months. This military material has incredibly high sheer strength in the horizontal plane but compresses in the vertical plane absorbing bass energy relative to it's thickness and the mass (total weight) applied. Fortunately I found some an engineer on the project that had specifications for load and thickness and this has made experimenting a more fruitful venture. |
Lonestarsouth,
The Technics MK2 is an incredible machine. I didn't believe it until I owned one. |
Play a record of acoustic bass by, say, Charlie Haden's "Closeness" with Alice Coltrane and you will hear the delicacy of his plucking and tunefulness and its deep richness. Couldn't agree more with your assessment of bass performance with SP10MK2 and MK3 and remarkable you mention one of my all time reference LPs. I don't think another post at Audiogon ever mentioned "Closeness." If you don't already have it, the other Charlie Haden that has the same effect on me is "The Golden Number," Duets with Don Cherry Ornette Coleman, Hampton Hawes and Archie Shep. Truly great stuff, Horizon 26 by A&M. |
(2) Electrolytic caps will eventually self-destruct. Just when that will happen is impossible to predict, but 20-30 years of service is pushing the envelope. Moreover, modern electrolytics are way better than those available back in the 70s, so swapping them in can have unexpected benefits in performance.
As I noted, since the caps are so cheap and so easily obtained compared to an IC that just plain does not exist any more, and since the service can be performed by a professional for little more than a couple of hundred dollars or by DIY for much much less, it seems foolish not to take this preventive measure. I agree emphatically with Lewm and would add that if certain caps fail on Technics MK2 or MK3 during music play, the result can be catastrophic. My MK2 had a cap failure just as I was about to I drop the needle and play some music. The platter was turning fine, but at high speed and in REVERSE. I know this is cool for those that like to "scratch" but a bit risky for me. One of my two Technics SP10 MK3s made perfect music for months and months, when a sudden failure caused the platter to suddenly accelerate to 250 or 300 RPM, I was blessed my Koetsu Coralstone was not in the groove when this happened. My experience is based on four Technics total, two of which had failures that are potentially hundreds of times what new caps cost. As Lew says, it's just advice but I think my experience shows this kind of failure is not out of the question for products this old. The upside is professional upgrades makes these super tables sound better than when they were new and pretty much protect you from these kind of problems. |
Like I posted I don't want to " build a son " ( this is how we say it in México. ) with that subject but I must add that " two birds/butterfly don't announce/makes Spring time ". Do you also drive without seat belts because you've not had an accident this year? Precaution is the domain of sensible thinking. Why don't you type Technics speed problem in Google search and read countless pages on the internet about speed problems due to caps and IC failures. The IC problems are frequently due to a cap failure and some of the ICs are NOT AVAILABLE anywhere at ANY price. A Technics MK3 typically goes for a minimum of $4500.00 and as high as $10,000.00. If you loose the control chip due to bad cap it makes for a pretty expensive paper weight. I'll offer the part number and telephone number of my tech if you still think I'm kidding. Short answer, the internet is filled with similar birds and butterflies, spring is here and it must have been a spring several years ago, judging from the dates on some of these posts. |
You're being way too sensible T_bone, next you're going to tell me you should clean your stylus every so often too. |
09-02-09: Hiho
T_bone, I do have an SP10mk2 that spins way too fast, something like 200 or 300 rpm. Is that something I can repair by replacing all the electrolytic caps? Or is that something related to the obsolete chips? Hiho, with my MK2 it was caps, with my MK3 it was a cap that killed an IC. The most common cap in a Technics MK2 causing speed error is the large vertically mounted electrolytic located directly behind the face plate of the outboard power supply. (Wish we could put images into these posts!) Here is a list of the stock values I replaced in my outboard power supply. There are more under the platter. #.....uF.......VDC (1) 100 .......16 (1) 100 .......16 (1) 1000......16 (1) 100 .......50 (1) 100 .......50 (1) 1000 .....80 (1) 22 .......160 (1) 100 .....160 The following are what replaced the list above. I purchased mine from Mike Percy #.....Brand............uF..........VDC (4) Nichicon ..... 100uf......50V ES (NP) (1) Nichicon .....1000uf......25V ES (NP) (1) Nichicon .....1000uf....100V FV (polar) (1) Black Gate ... 33uf....160V standard polar (1) Black Gate .....100uf....160V standard polar Hope this helps, I would check to be sure Technics did not change values from model to model before ordering. This should be a good start though. |
