SP10 Mk II vs Mk III

John,
You wrote, "The MkIII had a SAEC SS-300 with a sorbathane "like" material on top of it. The MKII had the orignal rubber mat." Perhaps that had something to do with the across the board superiority of the Mk3. But with quasi-sorbothane on top of SAEC, it would seem that the "sorbothane" would dominate the sound picture, as compared to the SAEC.

But then you wrote, "Next, I compared the rubber mat to the Saec mat alone. I couldn't hear any difference between these two mats." Wow! They sound quite different in my system. The SAEC seems to impart a lower noise floor compared to the stock factory mats on either the Denon DP80 or the Technics Mk2A; on both, I can hear inner detail better in all frequency ranges with the SAEC vs rubber.

I am not touting the SAEC in any way over all other possible substitutes, because it is the only one I have tried. I am curious to try others. Clearly, the mat makes a big difference. However, with the direct-drive tables one must be cautious about using a (metal) mat that is very much heavier (or very much lighter) than stock, for fear of upsetting the operation of the servo mechanism that maintains stable speed. That's how I glommed on to the SAEC. It is less than twice as heavy as the stock rubber mat.

Pryso, I had both a MkII and a Mk2A for a while. You are quite correct; there is a difference between the rubber mats supplied for those two tts. The MkII mat has those fine concentric rings, as you say, and may be more flexible, made of less rigid or thinner rubber, compared to the 2A mat. The Mk2A mat resembles, if it is not identical to, the rubber mat supplied with the Mk3. (I also have the correct original mat for my Mk3; it is not warped, but I expect to be using something more like the SAEC, based on my listening tests with the Mk2A and DP80.) Problem is also that my Mk2A mat is NOS, was never used and therefore warped a bit during storage. There must be a way to flatten it, but that is what motivated me to shell out money for the SAEC mat, which came highly recommended by Raul.

John, This business of piling one mat upon another seems a bit odd to me, unless it is to build up the mass to match that of the stock rubber mat, which is a good idea. I really like the Boston Audio Mat 1 on my Lenco, but it is way too light to use by itself on a Technics, due to possible effects on the servo.

I have asked myself how the mat got warped in the first place, for a clue as to how to remove the warp. I assume it absorbed moisture, but I question my own hypothesis; why should rubber absorb moisture? Anyway, it's got to be totally flat to be useful as a platter mat, so whatever is done probably should be done with the thing under some sort of pressure to squeeze it flat. I guess brief boiling could not hurt it. It is NOS, was never used at all, came to me in original wrapping, complete with warp.

Rich, I did not mean to lead you down the garden path. For what it's worth, I did find the MKII stock mat to sound just fine, even though I did like the SAEC a bit better. The 2A mat and the Denon DP80 mat are both thicker and more rigid than the MkII mat, and the Denon mat does color the sound compared to the SAEC. (I have more experience with the Denon.) Please don't feel you have to go out and buy a different mat from stock. As to the question about mats and servo mechanisms, there was a thread on DIYAudio where this was discussed in connection with building a new power supply and electronic control for a MkII. The servo is "tuned" to see a certain platter mass. If you increase the platter mass too much, there is a danger that the servo action will be overdamped. If you decrease the platter mass by too much, the servo will go a little nuts because it is getting inadequate feedback. The unknown for any particular system is how much mass is too much or too little. The Technics tables have powerful motors, so it is possible that they will be quite tolerant of heavier mats, esp the Mk3, but motor torque is not the only parameter that would govern the outcome. As far as I can tell, the SAEC mat (wt given above by T-bone) does no harm to the operation of the servo on my Mk2A. It sounds good on my Denon, too, but looking at the strobe on the Denon with the SAEC mat in place, I think I may be able to see a very slight wavering of the speed, back and forth. Can't hear a problem, however, and it may be just my imagination, it is that subtle. But some of the very heavy mats, such as many of those sold by TT Weights, would be a no-no for a direct-drive turntable, IMO. TT Weights would probably custom build you a mat for a dd, however, if you specified the mass in advance.

Interestingly, the Kenwood L07D has an optional platter ring, which increases the effective mass of the total platter assembly by quite a bit, and all the added mass is at the periphery where it has the greatest possible effect. To compensate for that, the L07D Power Supply has a switch which changes operation of its servo when the platter ring is being used. This kind of proves to me that the phenomenon is real, not just theoretical.

Voraratc, I suggest you purchase Panasonic capacitors that are available from Digikey, on-line. If they won't ship to Thailand, then perhaps you can do a search in your area for a source of Panaonics. Nichicon and Silmic are superb choices, as well. You will need a wide variety of capacitors in different values and voltages. You may be able to find an SP10 Mk3 parts list or service manual on-line, as well, so you will know just what you need to order. Try Vinyl Engine for those documents.