Soundstage depth how to improve? Shootout


Yes, soundstage depth behind the speakers, how can we improve this, and what equipment is most important for this?

Deeper speakers have more sound depth?

Toe-in speakers makes it worse?

Has tube quality something to do with it?

Cables not, that is a fact!

Combination/match preamp/amp?

Distance speakers from backwall have impact, that is also a fact!

Before I had a unison research sinfonia integrated(2×ecc82+2×ecc83 +4×6550) and the depth was much better, the depth behind the speakers was about 6 to 8 foot behind the speakers by estimate.

Now I have a Coincident statement line stage mk2(2×101D) with triode corporation trx-m300(2×310A+1×274B+1×300B’s) amps, and it is maybe half that??

The difference is almost 20k$.

Shoot me, I don’t know....

Speakers: living voice obx-rw2

Digi: bryston bda2 + bdp2

 

klappertjedundas

Showing 5 responses by klappertjedundas

@russ69 

Yes your right, this change of amps made the SS much wider, but also less deeper and more forward.

@sns 

thank's for explaning...the guy from who I bought the coincident and the Triode's had a very small room and the SS was very forward, I thought it was his room, but it was the amps and his room. The coincident is dht, shall a Supratek Cabernet dht be better, because this one is not 100% dht?

your knowledge is very good I see!

Roomtreatment is always a good investment...in the near future I will start with this.

still the question is it the coincident or the Triode's, the tubes? the triodes are based on a western electric 91a or b.....anyone familiar with this amps and how they do soundstage depth? 

the speakers have proven they can do extreme soundstage also in depth.

​​​​​​​keep on shooting😁

 

I saw I opened this thread double...sorry for that, I will delete the other.

Below I copy/paste the reactions of the other thread.

 

edcyn
1,107 posts

Speakers carefully positioned. I like my Nola Boxers aimed straight ahead, maybe about seven feet away from my ears, at a height that has the tweets at ear level. A good room. Enough furniture to deaden the joint a little but not put it to sleep.

 

mahgister's avatar

mahgister

6,947 posts

I change my soundstage at will....

Read about acoustic and psycho-acoustic...

No gear can beat acoustic....

And positioning the speakers will not do.... It is only an elementary basic necessity that will not create soundstage...

A room acoustic control and treatment will do...

Dont upgrade with costly gear to improve soundstage.... the gear cannot replace acoustic...It is consumers market conditioning...snake oil sellers.... For sure some gear are better than other one  but NONE could replace acoustic control....Acoustic is science...

 

jjss49's avatarAg insider logo xs@2x

jjss49

4,139 posts

room interaction with speaker is most key (that includes speaker placement and listening position)

@sns 

My room almost sounds symmetrical, means the soundstage is left and right way outside the speakers, depend on recording but sometimes about 4 foot. Q-sound recordings are also 90% symmetrical and completly left and right of me, almost behind me.

Vocals are between the speakers, a bit behind. Instruments and vocals on left or right speaker are little forward. With a choir in a church or an Orchestra I was used to hear(with the Unison Research Sinfonia) it mostly behind the speakers also wide, you could hear the room or church room in the recording like a big cloud. Now that is quit flat, not behind not forward, wide yes! I like live performance a bit upfront and choir/Orchestra a bit with room behind. The Unison had a deeper, but absolute no wider ss, and is a bit darker sounding but very comprehensive, but not as detailed. Give me warmth, musicality, live, micro/macro dynamics😁.

Cables ac are jps power ac+ for amps and cardas golden reference for pre and jps the digital ac for dac.

Links are PhantomCable gold and Nordost Frey2...all rca.

Speakercables are PhantomCable gold.

The frey will go...too detailed and not comprehensive and musical enough.

Ac is clean, not much around here...small village.

Treatment I will do.

@mahgister 

Headphones is a good startingpoint for people who want to start the hifi hobby, you learn cheaply about a lot aspects about sound. It safes a lot $$ in the end.

 

 

@williewonka 

Speakers are 10 feet apart

Listening position is 11 feet from baffle and 4 feet from back window😪

Speakers(rear) are almost 6 feet from backwall.

Cables improve coherence and imaging sounds, but minimal effect ss in my opinion. 

 

 

Everyone many thank’s, you all brought me wise things to do, and learned me a lot , so I understand more about how and why.

First thing will be shuffeling around with the speakers and treat the music with roomtreatment.

In the future the coincident statement speaker mk2 line stage gets competition from an other line stage, maybe a Supratek Cabernet DHT, and will probably leave the building, because the mid-high is a bit too much.

The triodes trx-m300 ’s will get takatsuki’s 274b(anyone want to sell a pair?) and some new western electric 300b’s(offers?)!

The 310A’s, I don’t know if I can replace them with western electric’s?(anyone with a spare quad for sale?)

Now it’s time to enjoy the music and not think of equipment 😁.

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍