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Soundstage Confusion

I'm in the midst of choosing a new amp for my listening room. Currently, I'm using a NAD M22v2. I just auditioned at home the LTA power amps, and really like their ZTOL40 Reference amp. I also have my faithful Pioneer SPEC-4 that I've had for over 35 years. My components:

Herron VTSP 3A(r02) pre amp
Innous Zenith MKII media streamer
Small Green Computer i7 Roon for DSP device
Audio Mirror Tubadour III SE DAC
Technics SL-1200G TT
Parasound JC3jr phone pre
Tannoy DC8Ti speakers

My room is 13.5x11.5x8.  I've positioned the speakers 34" from the back wall and 22" from the side walls. I've been futzing with speaker placement and my listening position for a while. I have no room treatment yet.

With the NAD and my current setup, I get a huge soundstage and room filling sound. The speakers disappear, but imaging is awful where voices and instruments are well forward of and outside the speakers, with little depth. With the ZTOL40, and no other changes, the main voices are centered between the speakers; instrument separation is clear and overall imaging is great; the soundstage is between the speakers; and the speakers do NOT disappear.  

To test soundstage and imaging, I'm using Chesky Records Jazz Sampler & Audiophile Test files that I downloaded from HDTracks.com, in particular track 10 Introduction and Left-Right Imaging Test, track 11 Listening Environment Diagnostic Recording, and track 12 Acoustic Soundstage (depth) Test. The ZTOL40 passes all tests with flying colors. The NAD fails them all.  I moved the NAD to my rec room system in place of the Pioneer amp. Soundstage is between the speaker; imaging is OK, and voices are centered.  Later today, I'm going to hookup the Pioneer amp to my main system and run the Chesky tests.  That should be interesting.

Before all of this craziness started, I had a different rack.  This past week, I replaced it with a Butcher Block 4 shelf rack. Before that rack, my speaker and sitting positions were slightly different; the NAD soundstage was between the speakers; and imaging was fine.  With all other things being equal, I'm finding it hard to believe that a different rack and/or an amplifier change could cause such a drastic change in soundstage and imaging.  Any ideas anyone?

 
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Showing 9 responses by oldschool1948

oldschool1948's avatar
oldschool1948 OP
488 posts
 
Lance,

I auditioned the microZOTL preamp with the ZOTL40 power amp and it sounded good.  I listened to it at LTA's office and at home. It is a fine piece of equipment.  My only knock is their Apple remote control lacks too much functionality.  IMHO, LTA needs to provide a much more feature rich remote.

I purchased my Herron used for $2.5K, to my ears, the SQ and sound stage were about the same, but it wasn't $2K better.  I was, however, quite interested in the microZOTL balanced inputs and headphone amp.

I haven't used headphones in years, not since back in the 80's when I was spinning two Technics SL-1200 TT recording to my Teac X-10R R2R and/or partying like it was "1999."  Ah, those were the days :-).  I will eventually buy headphones again, and I don't want to add another component. 

And, I'd like to use the balanced outputs from my phono pre amp.  At that point, I will revisit the microZOTL preamp.  Hopefully, by then, they will have improved the remote.  It may seem like a small thing, but their current one is a show stopper for me.

Johnnie 


oldschool1948's avatar
oldschool1948 OP
488 posts
 
@mapman I did use the same recordings.  Some vocals and some jazz, and some audiophile test tracks.  I didn’t think of a monophonic recording.  Good advice.  I’ll remember that next time.
oldschool1948's avatar
oldschool1948 OP
488 posts
 
Yep, that was the first thing I checked.  This has really baffling.
oldschool1948's avatar
oldschool1948 OP
488 posts
 
"Yep, that was the first thing I checked.  This has really baffling."

I  meant to say, "Yep, it was the first thing I checked and my speakers were OK.  This is really baffling."  Sorry about that.  

My NAD and the ZTOL40 are sitting on the floor in between and parallel to the speakers, and not on the rack.  The ZTOL40 is an LTA demo amp and it is well broken in.  For A/B comparisons, I swapped cables and interconnects.  I'm using Blue Jean speaker cables with locking banana plugs and Transparent Super RCA interconnects.

I spent most of my time listening to my regular playlists.  Everything works fine with the ZTOL, not so much anymore with the NAD.  This evening, I'll start experimenting again with speaker positions.

I plan to keep the rack, but move it to the back of my left side wall.  But, first I have to do a little remodeling.  Funny thing, I had several contractors scheduled to give me estimates when this crazy virus mess started.  I've since put that project on hold.   

oldschool1948's avatar
oldschool1948 OP
488 posts
 
Guys, I appreciate the help.  I'm a techie by trade and I recognize that when troubleshooting, you only change one thing at a time. 

Silly me, I didn't expect that adding a rack would cause this kind of issue when two amps play fine in the same position where the NAD has this massive, unfocused soundstage.  

This is bugging me so I'm going to tinker with speaker position this evening.  I'll probably by the ZTOL40 and the massive, unfocused soundstage problem will go away on its own.  But the techie in me won't rest until I fix or vastly improve on the NAD soundstage problem. 
oldschool1948's avatar
oldschool1948 OP
488 posts
 
After overlooking the real problem for several days, I walked away from it.  Today, I figured out my problem.  I'm embarrassed to say, it was me.  While moving my NAD out of the old rack and placing it on the floor, I somehow moved the Bridge switch from Stereo to Bridge mode. 

What can I say?  Thanks to everyone for trying to help me and please forgive the false alarm.  One thing for sure, I'll make other mistakes in my life, but it won't be that one again.
oldschool1948's avatar
oldschool1948 OP
488 posts
 
I hear you!!  😂 
oldschool1948's avatar
oldschool1948 OP
488 posts
 
@heaudio123.  When I realized what I had done, all I could do was laugh and shake my head.  And although I felt a bit foolish doing it, admitting my mistake was easy.  At my age, I've made so many of them, what's one more :-)!

@reubent It's good to be back in the saddle with my music, and a (properly) working M22v2.
oldschool1948's avatar
oldschool1948 OP
488 posts
 
Sometimes panic sets in. One has to laugh at oneself on occasion.
Ditto!

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