Soundsmith Straingauge SG-200 cartridge system

Dear Spiritofmusic: I respect every single advise you already received but I can see that you realy cares about music because you are asking for neutrality and this characteristic is a main target to achieve on music reproduction along natural tone balance and accuracy.

I already heard almost all the cartridges named here ( including de SG. ) and IMHO many of them are far away from what you are asking for.

One cartridge that meets your targets and that IMHO is a great performer is the vintage Astatic MF-200 that you could get asking to this person that has some samples on sale:
usedhifi@mail2lawrence.com

Well, the Astatic is an alternative for you.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Dear Spiritofmusic: You are talking of neutrality as a main target to achieve on your audio system.

IMHO neutrality is an " elusive " factor/characteristic in audio items and neutrality to different persons has different meaning. From one of your thread you posted:

++++ " The amazing thing is that all of this is not in anyway at the expense of the natural warmth and tonal dimensionality that still puts vinyl way ahead of any digital (imho). " ++++++

" Natural warmth ", well I don't know what you are refering in specific way because if you are refering to what is live music normaly there is no " natural warmth " there but more " natural agresiveness ". Seems to me that you like more than something neutral something colored. The 103 is a colored performer against a neutral and accurate Orpheous. IMHO your " dynamics/bass and the like " that you are enjoying over the Orpheus is only colorations/distortions that you likes more than the neutrality/accuracy on the Orpheus.

I don't know if you are using the Hovland tube elctronics on the line stage that I heard several times and that IMHO has colorations as the ones you like it.

You can try the advise that Lewm/Dgarretson and me already give you about something not only neutral but extraordinary performer by any standards. Yes is a vintage cartridge the Astatic one MF-200 that you could find through the link I gave you in my other post or trhough the Dgarretson links.

IMHO you can lose nothing trying that advise because is only an alternative a really unexpesive one, is so " cheap " that at the same time you can go for any other of the more expensive ( LOMC or SS. ) alternatives and let me tell you something : if you don't feel satisfied with that MF-200 you can sale to me, a compromise for my self.

All what is in this thread are alternatives and certainly you don't have to go with only one.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Dear Spriritofmusic: Other than the seller I know no one with experiences on the Astatic MF-2500 and even I don't know if the seller already heard it and compare against the MF-200/300 that some of us support.

The Dgarretson link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/World-Famous-Astatic-Moving-Flux-Phonograph-Cartridge-MF-Series-Model-MF-300-/320928474738?pt=US_Record_Player_Turntable_Parts&hash=item4ab8d3e672#ht_500wt_1048

is for acartridge that have the same motor of the well regarded MF-200 where for a few dollars you can up date through Axel ( Germany ) re-tipping/refresh. This is very good option.

Now there are current MM/MI cartridges that are very good performers too, Garrot have a pair of models and the Virtuoso Wood by Clearaudio is very good too especialy after Axel's " touch. You can read something here about the Astatic and Clearaudio cartridges:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1200430667&openflup&7504&4#7504

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ranlg&1313624221

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Dear Dougdeacon: +++++ " The original SG I heard (at RMAF a few years ago) had oodles of dynamics, a full frequency range, speed, weight, heft, etc. Everything it did it did well and nothing was distorted. However, it lost or severely attenuated the complex harmonics we're used to hearing on two familiar Vivaldi and Handel LP's.... " ++++++

+++ " lose the lowest levels of musical harmonics. They simply fall below the sound floor of the component and are not retrieved.

People who listen to rock or other amplified/electronically manipulated music might not notice or care. We listen almost entirely to classical, with a heavy emphasis on original/early instrument recordings. Reproducing harmonic complexities with completeness and accuracy is essential to reproducing the actual sound of such music. " ++++

this is not the first time that you post about harmonics and I think that on each time " things " are not very clear because IMHO you was not precise, I mean what harmonics are you talking about?: in which frequency ranges? it is the 2th, the 3th, the 5th, the 6th, its combinations or what? how any one of us with the same LPs can even figure what are you talking on harmonics with out be more precise about?

I think I know both of you ( about listen music experiences/habilities. ) more or less as you know me too.
I know all the " implications " on the music experiences on harmonics and its main influences on any music experience.

My take on the SS is that its main " trouble " is about frequency response deviations against any other LOMC/MM/MI cartridges due that does not performs with the RIAA eq. ( as any other cartridge/phono stage and as the recording was recorded. ), the SS has its own eq. curve. IMHO there is no reason that the SS can't handle music harmonics but its frequency deviations makes a different tone/color. I heard it in a very good audio system and that's was what I heard.

As you I heard in my system all the cartridges you name it but the Olympos that I heard in the same system I heard the SS along all them I heard in my system the Goldfinger, Coralstone, AT Supreme and the like. All of them good performers with its own trade offs.

IMHO the SS is a cartridge that can fulfil some persons music priorities that likes those deviations/colorations/distortions. I know you don't like it, you are to polite about, as neither I. Our priorities are different but other people are different too and some of them love it.

You and Stringreen posted to hear it before decide to buy it and I'm with both of you the only " thing " I can say is that we have to hear it for some hours ( not brief way ) against other top cartridges and then decide about.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Dear Slowlearner: Good England experience.

+++++ " This experience proved to me once again that we do have a long term acoustic memory of a sort - as well as a bias - sometimes so much so that it makes an unbiased hearing of something different very difficult, if not impossible. " +++++

this is something that happens almost all the time between LOMC biased listeners when hear the MM/MI alternative for the first time and normaly they don't give the " time " to this MM/MI alternative and frequently they don't even made the right MM/MI cartridge overall set up with the same care as they took with their LOMC favorite ones.

I try hard to be not biased to the magnetic cartridge alternative over the SG one, even I know and I prefer the quality performance of DVD-A against any magnetic cartridge.

I posted that I don't see any reason why the SG can't handle the " harmonics development " that as you posted came with the cartridge habilities to " stay in the groove " the tracking cartridge habilities that means lower or higher distortions ( depend on its tracking habilities. ) where these tracking distortions have and develop its own harmonics.

The first time I heard your SG I can't detect any tracking problem because that was not what I was testing ( was not in my place but SD ones. ) but LP tracks that I used at my place as part of my overall audio item testing process that I know in very precise and clear way.
That very first time with your SG cartridge was a learning session where what I detect was frequency deviations more than harmonics problems and I detected way before we compared against the Olympos that showed a lot lower frequency deviations/distotions. We tested both cartridges with almost the same LP tracks that I know as good as my hand fingers.

Nothing is perfect in audio always we find out trade offs and if it's true that SG signal pass through less phono stages ( no inverse RIAA eq. for example. ) that always degrade the cartridge signal it is true that our ears ( especialy mines. ) are very sensitive to frequency deviations that makes that some of the very top magnetic cartridges sounds more " natural ".

IMHO and thinking in " high voice " maybe the SG cartridge self deviations could be ( to me ) less " important " with a different/better SG self electronics. I don't know the SG electronics design so I'm only " thinking " about, I " know " that that SG electronics are not perfect and always could be up grade it. I can be wrong but I think that as designer you are not totaly satisfied in the SG today status and I hope that in the future its quality performance can lower or disappear its today performance " problems " in favor of the music listening home experiences.

Opinions are always that: opinions. Even with all the " problems " that surround the magnetic cartridges ( less and lower in the MM/MI field. ) I still prefered against the SG, at least for now.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Dear Dover: The SG comes with its dedicated PS you can't use it in other one.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.