thanks generally, I will comment to specifics later,
please remember, I don't/won't stream, it's just not for me.
I am the one who started 'upgrade CD to SACD', (I found that from stereophile, below) so I am posting some of what I found online:
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-4hMRMWIbYmp/p_158XA5400E/Sony-ES-SCD-XA5400ES.html
digital-to-analog converters, which employ 12-layer digital filtering and direct DSD-to-analog conversion to deliver superlative SACD performance.
https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/audio-player/sacd-players/sony-scd-xa5400es-player/
to criticize the Sony for making a bad mastering job sound bad isn’t right,
the cost, but for just a couple of dollars per recording to make everything in my collection (400 cds) sound so much better
https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/res/manuals/4000/40006911M.pdf
Dual Laser Optical Pickup
Super Audio D/A Converter
CDs are recorded in the PCM format). The DSD format, using a sampling frequency 64 times higher than that of a conventional CD, and with 1-bit quantization
https://www.stereophile.com/content/new-sony-5400-sacd-player-has-made-your-8000-cd-player-obsolete-1
https://www.stereophile.com/musicintheround/music_in_the_round_36
finger-pointing about direct conversion of DSD to analog vs conversion via intermediary transcoding to PCM.
Sony's Technical Background paper spends a lot of words on SACD processing but says little about the player's CD processing, except to describe an 8x-oversampling filter and a noise shaper that result in a 2.8224MHz signal-sampling frequency—the same as that of DSD. "In this way, the SA-DAC presents both CD and SACD signals to the final converter stage in the identical 1-bit/64fs form." The explanation, presumably translated from Japanese, is not entirely clear, but if Sony is implying that CDs played on the SCD-XA5400ES should sound pretty close to SACDs, I think they have a good case.
differences between the two-channel SACD and CD tracks of many discs disappeared, and better CD recordings were revealed as sounding detailed, spacious, and luscious.
July 2020:
It is a multichannel SACD player – the last great one from Sony, massively built
https://www.hifinews.com/content/sony-scd-xa5400es-%C2%A31200
but jitter has always been an issue - until now
With stereo SACD the often slightly edgy upper frequencies, wrought by producers trying to make SACD sound sharper, are buffed smooth without any adverse softening of their impact.
SCD-XA5400ES’s bass is inherently fast and deep.
The balanced XLR output offers a further advance, bringing the 5400ES closer still to XA9000ES quality.
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"In this way, the SA-DAC presents both CD and SACD signals to the final converter stage in the identical 1-bit/64fs form."
Contradicted in writing anywhere?
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Balanced to avoid problems in long complicated runs backstage, ok.
home, a 1 meter cable, no interference ever with anything, HOW can a balanced VERSION of Analog (after all processing) be better???
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Thanks Everyone,
I just bought a very lightly used Sony SCD-XA5400ES because:
1. Multiple DACs
2. Dedicated Lasers for SACD and CD
3. SACD DSD/DAC/Analog without a PCM intermediate step.
4. It MAY (no consensus) upscale CD's to SACD #s
"an 8x-oversampling filter and a noise shaper that result in a 2.8224MHz signal-sampling frequency—the same as that of DSD. "In this way, the SA-DAC presents both CD and SACD signals to the final converter stage in the identical 1-bit/64fs form."
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Expectantly, it will sound better than the Yamaha DVD-C961 I found and presently like a lot, which sounds as good as the Onkyo Integra CDC-3.4 II I also like that I just sold because the Yamaha also plays SACD, Onkyo CD only.
NO ONE mentioned this xa5400 in my prior CD search. Who knows what I might have done if someone had.
IF, like the supposedly superior Oppo's I tried, it is not a preferred sound (I avoid 'better'), I will, like the Oppo, resell it. Hopefully not, then keep the Yamaha in the garage system, sell the Sony that is there currently.
Thanks for advice, ideas, YAYs mostly!!!
Elliott
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for what it's worth, fm service manual, an 8 oversampling digital filter is shown in the signal path, pg 39, IC202
file:///G:/23%20DOCS%202021/audio%20related/cd%20players/new%20cd%20player/sony%20scd-xa5400es/SONY_SCD-XA5400ES_Service_Manual.pdf
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After my Denon 'lost the spring' Humiliation, Mr. Fixit goes for Redemption.
I just bought a non-working Integra CDC-3.4 Mark II for $53. delivered. (a hospital, they are unable to test things). I have the remote.
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mahler123
$1,500. when introduced, $1,000. was a good deal for you then. It’s surprising what prices people get for them now. I just paid $999. all these years later for what seller says is very lightly used and fully tested, finds/plays many types of discs/files with no hesitation.
Prices, high to low
Sorry yours did that, mine better not cut off the beginning of songs or it’s going back. I hope to prefer it to my current Yamaha or I will sell it. It’s hard to recover fees, taxes, shipping costs, probably lose a few hundred like I did with the two Oppo’s I tried and did not prefer. I was listening to some ’new to me’ music on the Yamaha last night, simply wonderful.
I’ve got too much music, I quit smoking, spent all my tobacco money on music for 30 years, primarily CD’s in those years. if all my CD’s sound better, it’s cheap at any price, until you admit you only truly and repeatedly enjoy some, not all of them. 4,000 cds, I can wear the laser out re-discovering cd’s I won’t listen too again..
Buyer received my Integra yesterday. ’not working’ Integra arrives here today, Sony arrives here Sunday. Hope to fix the Integra fairly easily, keep/sell/give it away.
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dragged out while listening, that’s a great memory for sure.
If physical issues, drawer movement .. dried lube, new belt, some of Donna’s long hair (no cats here), I can do that myself.
I replaced a laser once successfully, just mysteriously lost a critical spring for another.
This unit, the entire laser assembly get’s replaced, but I would pay a pro. I’m near NYC, gotta be someone, and I’m gonna call my new friends Steve and Ray Leung at VAS, see if they would do that if needed.
Yesterday I replaced 2 of 3 identical belts on the Yamaha Changer I bought. It came with the ’need to manually close the drawer’ issue. Works as new now.
I don’t like the ’drawer above the buttons’ design, BUT, it is sooo easy, cover off, open drawer, all 3 identical belts exposed, simply change them, no tools or disassembly. Changers with the drawer ’below the buttons’ must be a lot more work. I’m gonna have a peek at this bottom drawer Integra on Saturday.
I like keeping good stuff going. I mostly win, lost a few. Wait till that damn Denon spring re-appears.
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$40. Integra CDC-3.4 Mark II arrived: 'Mech. Error'.
Cover off, revolving tray was resistant to movement, a bit of a forced spin, it freed up, works perfectly. Less than 5 minutes!
I think someone dropped it, or carried it upside down or something.
some fresh lube, now what?
Sony SCD-xa5400ES due Sunday.
Makes up for the humiliation of the lost Denon spring. I didn't like the sound of the Denon, but someone might have preferred it and wanted it.
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SACD/DSD ... CD/PCM
I only have about 25 Hybrid SACD’s out of 4,000 CD’s, and had no plans to buy any more unless used and inexpensive. Mine are Hybrids, so I always have the CD PCM layer and the SACD DSD layer to compare.
No one in the ’Better CD’ conversation mentioned SACD’s almost always being converted to PCM, I found out later. I read a hell of a lotta reviews, none mentioned it, until the one I wish I hadn’t read!
I realized I have never heard DSD without intermediate conversion to PCM, then conversion to Analog. After all this work, I ought to hear SACD/DSD no PCM conversion stage right?
Prior to that, my quest was done. That’s what the xa5400 is about for me.
Then, it appears that it does juice up CD’s x 8, so there is that potential difference to possible prefer.
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After several false starts by FEDEX (driver shortages?), the Sony arrived yesterday morning. As it happens, I had a repaired Integra CDC-3.4 II and repaired Yamaha DVD-C961 hooked up ready to compare. Stacked em, moved the same cable direct to Cayin: same input unit to unit this time rather than using different inputs. Volume outputs needed a tweak doing it this way.
The Integra and Yamaha still sound the same to me, both much better than my prior player, both under $250, functionally prefer Integra (CDs only), Yamaha big clunky remote equals it and plays SACDs.
........................................
Sony SCD-XA5400ES is a definite step up. I paid $999. ($1,120 taxed and delivered) for this very lightly used one and have no regrets. Actually low if you see what's out there, and this was in USA.
After being disappointed by the Oppos, I half expected to re-sell it, but it is definitely staying, I will sell ..... instead.
I started with new music I had ordered, unfamiliar, listen on the Sony first, then, after a bit familiar with the music/voices, on the Yamaha and Integra, back to the Sony.
Couple of new to me SACDs
new to me cds
then into favorite and familiar CDs: Eurythmics; Blue Nile; Kate Wolf; Ani DiFranco; Sade; Mila Drumke; Casandra Wilson.
Both SACDs and CDs, each and every one, the Sony is the keeper.
Lastly, I ran it thru my McIntosh mx110z tube tuner/preamp's aux. Like the others, I prefer this to direct to the Cayin.
Chase unit is out, so it's Furman ON, warm up 20 mins, everything thru mx110z, to Cayin using it's remote volume.
..................................
Why prefer Sony xa5400 you ask? I need more time to find the words, refine in my mind what I am hearing differently and responding to. Giving the ears a break until this evening.
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If someone you let go regrettably used you as a job reference, and you get a call, you respond "I cannot say enough good things about ..."
I truly cannot say enough good things about this Sony SCD-xa5400es.
Very familiar, very revealing content, ALL CDs, all SACDs: ALL OBVIOUSLY, SURPRISINGLY BETTER. Not Preferred, BETTER!
Andreas Vollenweider’s White Winds; sounds of the Eurythmics Underground Train; Distinction of ’No More Tears’ duet by Barbra Streisand and Donna Summer; Richard Burton and the Martian Death Rays in Jeff Wayne’s War of the Worlds; ah, there’s a second mandolin behind Kate Wolf’s guitar; the distinction of different string types of the 3 guitars on Friday Night in San Francisco; and finally, what SACD people who have been hearing that I never heard properly until now.
FUNDAMENTALS. I think there is a tighter, firmer, more solid, ... start to the fundamental of Each and Every Note. Improved overtones, volume and time decay all follow that BETTER start. I have never heard a CD sound so good anywhere.
The 3 guitars on Friday Night in San Francisco, my favorite music to refine my cartridge’s anti-skate. I am very very familiar, love this music. I could not imagine the added degree of genuine realism this player got out of a standard CD.
I am sooooo glad I kept going on the DSD/no pcm conversion search, the unexpected big win here is the redbook cd output from it’s 8x oversampling filter.
SACD. Among others I have a series of Oscar Peterson performances, ’exclusively for my friends’. my prior listening conclusion was ’lower noise floor’, eh, I’m not spending a lot more for that. OH holy crap, first one I tried, Mellow Mood SACD, just landed in the room.
You know how a visitor says, "sounds like they are right there" and you know your system, you know it’s great, but no, right there it is not. This seemed like Oscar was playing my Uncle Johnnie’s piano right there!
I can keep slobbering, or go listen. Bye!
EVERYONE: get thee an xa5400es!!!
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mountainsong, others who might know:
I see lasers and lasers in mechanisms.
literature says two lasers, one for sacd, one for cd. these show 1 laser.
is it that both lasers shoot thru the same lens?
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is dave_b still with us?
he loved this thing way back when
evidently he ignored his advice (my take on it)
"I can't believe that SONY could deliver such an amazing player for so little with a sound so engrossing that I wish every audiophile could hear one and understand the frivolity of pursueing other, would be state of the art players...this is as good as it needs to be, period!"
later he switched to a Krell Cipher which I never want to hear!
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LP/CD Comparison: after two: Zackly-Idenstical-Zimla.
1. Friday Night in San Francisco, 3 magnificent guitarists
First, the CD's imaging of the 3 guitarists helped me refine my anti-skate a smidge for identical placement of John's center guitar. Other improvements to imaging always follow proper center balance. Also, everything that follows when a stylus properly contacts the groove's bottom and both sides.
After that: no way I could tell them apart. I couldn't fool myself which was playing, but I believe anyone else could have.
The things that this player does right allow it to have the same full body sound of the guitars and their different string types that no other CD player was able to do. As I said, I think it is improved Fundamentals and all that follows, overtones, volume and time decay, inter-relationships
2. White Winds, Andreas Vollenweider.
https://www.discogs.com/master/82235-Andreas-Vollenweider-White-Winds-Seekers-Journey
Finally a CD player that makes the introductory wind sounds and water sounds properly, just like the LP does.
Other comparisons to follow, other ears than mine to get involved soon.
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Oh baby did this sound better than ever on this player!
I'm listening, thinking whoever recorded this sure knew what the hell they were doing. Checked, Rudy Gelder, his place, just terrific.
Max Roach solos (several) get center to full right, cymbals to cymbals everything in between
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I can't stop listening to this CD player. Started buying some used CD's.
This sounds outstanding
everything that is outstanding content is better than ever!!! crap is outstandingly crappy.
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It's a SALAD, not just a DAC,
it's how many DAC's? Over-Sampling; Re-Clocking; Anti-Jitter physical and software; Filters; Shaping, OEM proprietary tricks, .....
How the bejesus can you say 'ANY MODERN DAC?'
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Another 2 weeks of love for the xa5400es. I'm buying used CDs like I was buying used LP's, gives my TT a break.
sent my cartridge to AT, by instinct (I haven't hours played log) I thought, and they agreed, stylus worn just enough to wisely replace, so they sold me a replacement new cartridge for less than half price. Arrived yesterday, I'm away, will get it from my neighbor Sat. am, now gonna keep a log of hours played.
Then, repeat CD/LP comparison after a bit of play. Get some other ears over hear.
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it is at least a non-fatal disease.
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update:
I just ordered this 4 CD set
before this player, no way would I buy CD’s unless LP version didn’t exist. Now, preference is based on price, not format.
3 systems: what I did:
Main: xa5400ES is my single SACD/CD player.
sony 6 disc carousel put back in for continuous play, i.e. Christmas CD’s; Parties ... It is the most compact, handles 6 discs, even though the Yamaha and Onkyo Integra are preferred sound.
Garage/Shop: Onkyo Integra CDC-3.4 II (don’t need SACD there). Bigger than the Yamaha, but prefer smaller remote. Yamaha DVD-C961 I restored: just sold for a decent profit.
Office: CD Player in Computer good enough, very rarely used, primarily to make copies.
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"Not just a CD, a better CD"
I came across a Sony Insert when SACD/DSD was introduced.
Direct Stream Digital (DSD): 1 bit, 2,822,400 samples per second. Dynamic range of CD 96db is extended to 120 db.
"Even the SACD’s 16 bit CD layer can sound better if it’s based on a Direct Stream Digital studio master. The Super Bit Mapping Direct process can be used to downconvert to the 16 bit CD format, which enables you to hear more of the original master."
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will3
live anywhere near 07062. I've become friends with some nearby members, we might make a small listening group if gatherings are ever comfortable, now it's 2 at a time mostly here.
I think the upgrade bug has been caged. I'm living vicariously thru research and helping friends with their upgrades, and I'm selling again. SME 3009 II just sold, Fisher 500c brass knobs polished, last step prior to sale.
My friend brought his beloved DAC, we tried using the xa5400es for transport into his DAC, the Sony clearly beat it, that DAC went home with it's tail between it's legs. He's researching another DAC now.
Oh, I did just buy something didn't I. A NOS AT14sa cartridge body from here, and a NOS shibata stylus for it from there.
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Someone recently said CD’s were making a comeback. What a funny thought. Certainly my intention and final result after my search, all my existing and ’new to me’ cd’s have come alive like never before.
My first find about what they are doing:
"Internally, Marantz has a unique way to handle the digital signal. Marantz calls their technology Marantz Musical Mastering (MMM) which replaces a conventional DAC. The MMM circuit converts PCM (CD 44.1 kHz) to DSD 11.2 MHz and uses two system clocks to provide what Marantz calls the most accurate sampling possible, up to 384 kHz."
The Sony xa5400es is upscaling CD PCM by 8x, I don’t fully understand the numbers, but it certainly sounds better to me than the other 8 I tried.
Sony has made one ’filtering’ decision. Marantz evidently has ’optional filtering’.
"The sound of the Marantz is tunable, from the designers’ warm and mellow sound to a drier, more analytical sound."
Someday I’ll get to listen to the Marantz, and let’s hope more competition comes back into the CD/SACD world.
Two sets of Outputs: Fixed and Variable. My first Onkyo DX-7500 had this, simultaneous outputs: you could go straight to your amp(s) with one set; thru your preamp with the other. Marantz may be either/or, or both, not sure.
http://www.hifi-classic.net/review/onkyo-dx-7500-430.html
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cdd
which unit are you asking about? the Sony xa5400es does hybrids.
you can look up any unit and find the answer. I find lots of info on Crutchfield's site, they maintain info on discontinued models
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