2. amps-preamps
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Sonic qualities of SET output tubes?

Can you readily identify a 300B, 2A3, 805, 211, etc., amp’s sound with your eyes closed most of the time?


If so, I’sure would like to hear from you.


Amplifier design and the technology utilized within its confines decides the ‘voice’ or influence it will yield as much or more so than merely the output tubes the designer has chosen to use.


I get that part emphatically. One must hear the amp regardless the type of output tube technology on hand.


And yes, some Pentodes and Tetrodes are used as Triodes but are not indeed triodes by their specific architecture. That’s OK, just focus on their use as Triodes herein, please.


There are however certain tube types, irrespective of vintage which have basic undeniable sonic colors or characteristics, apart from their electrical aspects which keep attracting people to amps which use this or that tube in its output stage.


Some love 211s. some adore 300Bs. Some love EL34s configured to run as Triodes. I have an affinity for the latter. So far anyway. This topic could change my mind.


Has your own experience informed you what this or that output tube’s natural flavor regularly announces itself to be so you can have a reasonable expectation of its general presentation?


What sonic attribute continually attracts you to a particular SET tube design, 300B or some others?


Or, conversely, what is it about the sound that would bring you to covet a 211 amp over a 2A3, for example.


Why as another example, would you pick a 2A3 amp over one using 805s or 300B, 211, etc. or vice versa?


Removing ‘vintages’ and electronic or electrical qualities from the argument, what sonic attributes for the more popular S.E.T. amp output tubes have you determined seem to persist in their particular DNA?


I’m asking for input from those SET tube devotees to lend their experiences and knowledge on the subject of what tube sounds like what irrespective of the SET application, generally speaking.


My goal is to try getting a better feel for which SET Tube amp design, if any, I’d want to pursue and possibly invest heavily into going forward as the soul of a new system.


Tremendous thanks to all!

blindjim

Showing 12 responses by kdude66

kdude66
1,200 posts
 
blindjim,
 
I really can't add much more because atmasphere has covered all related details very well and is spot on.

The only thing you may think about is the correct pairing of a lwr pwr set Amp in your system and have reasonable expectations.

I tended to like the 2a3 the best in the right system but my current setup requires more pwr and isn't a good choice now.

You might list the rest of your system,room size,average volume level and types of music you generally listen to.

Kenny.
kdude66
1,200 posts
 
blindjim,

I can relate to just about everything you have said,

I may listen to a little bit different music than you do and have a slightly bigger room,20x25x9 that opens into our kitchen.

I have put a lot of effort in matching the right components to get the best sound for me overall.

I have Tekton double Impact speakers that are 95db with 1 watt,and they have a relatively flat impedance load so they are easy to drive.

I have the linear tube audio MZ2S preamp which can be used as a headphone amp and also can drive speakers with a 1.38 watt output into 4 ohms.

I have tried quite a few different amps with these speakers and I like the Linear tube audio Zotl 40 with both products using all nos glass.

Kenny.
kdude66
1,200 posts
 
Blindjim,

Can you readily identify a 300B, 2A3, 805, 211, etc., amp’s sound with your eyes closed most of the time?

You asked this main question and I thought I could give you my opinion on this.

I believe to some small degree,along as each individual different output tube has the proper circuit design and the amp has the correct matching between tube and transformer,the 3 most common lwr pwr tubes,300b,45,2a3 have slightly different sound to my ears and that comes from listening and or owning a few but certainly not all designs.

300b,has the most midrange warmth and body with slight extension roll off on sides of the frequency range.

45 tube has more clarity with less midrange warmth and body,but has greater frequency extension.

2a3 tube to my ears splits the difference between the first two.

Similar sonics to all 3, 
They will have a certain purity and inner glow that also some people refer to as "breath of life qualities"that no other topology of amps tubes or SS have,at least I haven't heard any in 35 yrs.

The big pwr transmitter tubes that I've heard or owned generally sound quite similar with not very noticeable difference in sonics.
 But Offcourse the same as the lwr pwr amps there is just to many variables in the overall designs to really speak accurately to the differing sonics.

Atmasphere provided a great list of variables in design that most certainly effect the sound.

Other Variables that can effect the sound in all tube amps,

Power supply
Type of output transformers 
Types of coupling capacitors 
Different brands of tubes
Different types of driver tubes
Different types of rectifier tubes
Hard wired or circuit board
Solid state or tubed rectified 

And probably other things I'm just not aware of.

I only own one set tube amp which is a Yamamoto A09s which is a 300b 8 watt per channel amp.It's a slightly different design than most 300b amps.It uses Torroidal type transformers in the pwr supply and also the output transformers which gives a slightly different sound.

Way to many variables overall to accurately predict the sound and the best way is always listen to one in your own system and room.

Hopefully I helped you,
Kenny.
kdude66
1,200 posts
 
Blindjim,

You are the second person to mention those two items to me this week. Are you involved in any conspiratorial activities lately? lol
Is the Linear tube a Dave Berning design?

Yes it's supposed to be a secret but we are looking for more members

All the Linear tube audio gear is greatly influenced by David Berning and has his blessings Offcourse.

I don't know where a guy could listen to the same gear I have but I've been told that Linear tube audio is getting a set of the Tekton Electron speakers to demo their amps with in their showroom.

I went to a shrink many yrs ago and I was told that I'm a hopeless case and they really aren't qualified to help me.😃

Best set of luck to you in your search,

Kenny.
kdude66
1,200 posts
 
atmasphere,

Wow just Wow,
Incredibly well written and explained priceless information IMO.

Thank You,

Kenny.
kdude66
1,200 posts
 
atamasphere,

Very nice information,thank you.

I quess in the golden days of audio weren't most speakers 16 ohm to be more tube friendly in that respect.

Kenny
kdude66
1,200 posts
 
Gentleman,

Keep the Knowledge coming,

Best thread on audiogon presently.

I'm getting good factual info that were kinda grey areas to me and this thread has educated me well.

I thank you all,

Kenny.
kdude66
1,200 posts
 
wolf,

You should have stayed with the dual toaster outputs,probably wouldn't have issues.LOL.


Kenny.
kdude66
1,200 posts
 
blindjim,

Thank You for starting this thread,
It's been a wealth of knowledge for me and others.
There is a bunch of high quality tube amps on the market nowadays and sometimes it just makes picking one that much tougher.

I look at myself traveling down this audiophile road and I know It's a journey and my ears are in the drivers seat while the rest of my body just kicks back and enjoys the music,because all of this gear we buy and or talk about is really just the "Means to the enjoyment of music playback in our homes"and for me It's all about the music.

I wish you the best of luck in your journey of finding the sound that gets you a closer connection to the music you Love.

Kenny.
kdude66
1,200 posts
 
grannyring,

What amps did you like with the Coincident total victory 2's when you had them and how big was your room.


Kenny.
kdude66
1,200 posts
 
blindjim,

From experience I would like to give you another horn speaker option and that is the Bob Crites Cornscala.These are available as a kit or fully built for about 2k.I helped a friend put a set together about 8 yrs ago and 2yrs ago I helped him again do some updating to the crossover components.
Now his complete system has better gear than what he first started with which was just a Integra receiver.

I always thought they sounded pretty darn good for the money and could be paired with a Set or PP amp.You do need to be at least 15ft away or more to get the most Coherent sound.

I liked them so much I almost got a pair for myself but at that time I went in another direction and went down the full range driver road.

Our new smaller house has a smaller listening area and I set 10ft away from my speakers and the Tekton DI's are a much better choice for me know.

Just my thoughts,

Kenny.
kdude66
1,200 posts
 
blindjim,

http://www.critesspeakers.com/cornscala.html

Here is a current link to the Cornscala speaker,we built the type c version with the selenium driver and horn.

Bob has several versions of the Cornscala and it gets a little confusing but I know you could buy them as a kit or fully built.

I'm not sure what the cost would actually be as a fully built version,I will have to look at the website and figure this up and let you know.

Kenny.
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