Some thoughts on dust covers


Over the course of time there have been many discussions concerning the subject of dust covers.  They tend to revolve around the central question:  Should the dust cover be down or up while playing records?  Some of these discussions have been nasty, consequently I have refrained from participation.  It is hoped that I can provide some common sense that was given to me by someone of unquestioned authority many years ago.  During college and after, from 1970 to ~1980 I worked in HiFi retail, selling high end lines of audio equipment.  One of these lines was Thorens.  Sometime around 1977 or 1978, if memory serves, Thorens introduced their new TD126, as a top of the line TT with their own arm and I sold the first one at our store to very good customer.  He came back very unhappy after the first night of frustration with it.  The problem was that with the dust cover closed some of his favorite records were hitting tangentally on the very back were the platter came closest to the dust cover when it was in the closed position.  I called the manufacturer's rep and he set up a three cornered phone call with himself, the Chief Engineer of Thorens at the time, and me.  I don't recall the man's name, but it doesn't matter, it is what he said that matters, then and now.  The Chief Engineer explained that the problem was caused because the hole in the offending records was slightly off center so there was an eccentricity as such a record rotates about the spindle.  The solution was simplicity itself, the dust cover should be removed always when playing records.  That the intent of the cover is to protect the turntable when not in use.  I pointed out that we lived in a semi-arrid environment (San Diego, CA) which is dusty to which he replied that if the environment was too dusty for records it should also be considered unhealthy for people to be breathing the air.  He recommended are filtration, not dust covers to address environmental concerns.  The rep asked about air bourne feedback from speakers and the Thorens guy laughed and said that if that was a problem in a given system, relying of the dust cover was a very flimsy and ineffective solution and that proper measures should be instituted to provide meaningful distance and isolation to ameliorate the problem.   So the often offered extremes:  a) Always play your records with the dust cover down, or b) put the dust cover away in it's box and never use it, should both be recognized for what they are are - not solutions at all.  First principles:  Identify the problem(s), seek solutions and alternatives, prioritize.

billstevenson

Showing 15 responses by mylogic

I can only comment on the original post in regard to on or off with dust covers…..

That Thorens engineer was covering up (literally) the original design problem with that model of deck…..

Which manufacturer would not allow a tolerance for eccentric records in the first design stage. Even worse not to address issues before mass production?

 

Thorens dropped a clanger here all right, big time and gave a stupid excuse!

 

Even stranger for a hi-end dealer to accept this and to finish the tale…believe the manufacturer that it was not ‘their fault’ 

I believe the previous post is hi-jacking this debate.

I thought we were talking about turntables cover on or off?

 

Anyway, back on track please…..

 

oldaudiophile, you are a kindred spirit. I believe entirely what you say. I replied to the original poster without reading all through the other replies. I did not ‘hack’ your opinions but we are of the same old school l believe. Yes Thorens did a public relations job on that complaint about the cover being too small and unfit for purpose.

 

l am in the UK and Thorens dominated mainland Europe in the 70s and 80s (not UK which was Garrard territory). I am very familiar with Thorens turntable owners in that period and spent many evenings music listening with their set ups. I can never recall any manuals stating remove the covers ever! Unless someone bought a chassis deck to install on a hi-fi bench then the cover on or off issue may have been different.

Hi-fi has become a bit of a home living statement now so it must be always on show. Now it’s all about design over aesthetics and manufacturers today have abandoned in most cases the use of turntable covers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Elliot your bias compensator is way off….

This thread is about turntable covers … on or off!

‘richardbrand’ has a head start with the answer so far l think. Exposing a record for the least amount of time is paramount.  1 - 0 to Richard.

Anyone getting back to the real question posted on this thread?

 

Theres been so much off track mumbo-jumbo on furnishings, table/chairs, record clamps and TV innuendo. This just shouldn’t be here!

Point on task was simple, ‘dust covers’ on or off?

lewm

What l meant was RB was one point ahead of the field.

 

Also it was not my original point….. It was ‘billstevenson’ who posted this thread !

 

And l see a few posts back, billstevenson is having a laugh too !

And various test scenarios. One lid up, one lid down and for good measure one lid off

 

You seem good to go on this one. Please let us know (if you care to) your  summations on the differences if any?

Am l am correct in thinking that Rega and Project turntables are light weight minimalist designs? They certainly look like featherweights in the hi-fi boxing ring….

Maybe that’s why they shy off covers? Highly likely they already know that their design structures are not massive enough to resist external forces unlike decks with heavier more substantial plinths.

 

 

elliottbnewcombjr

‘’Alices Restaurant’’ has all come back to memory!

Buckminster Fuller is new ground and has made me look into his history…..’’Spaceship Earth’’ and all that!

One of his theories remind me of Linn’s LP12. All the expensive tinkering over the years and upgrades to make this model better and things have not changed in 50 years.

l love his logic and this quote from him….

You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.

Why have Linn never built another turntable and try to better the LP12?

 

l wonder what Fuller would have made of this staying in the past?

 

lewn

So pleased you are following this very interesting thread, some call it a boring subject….you know!
 

The last few posts are relevant to dust covers, you were just not paying attention but just wanted to reciprocate.

elliottnewcombjr was just stating the obvious with ongoing engineering development. Buckminster Fuller was a renown inventor and his views are also relevant to the discussion.See his famous quote posted.

 

In an earlier post elliottbnewcombjr also stated this opinion on turntable covers….

’’Impractable TT’s (any TT) without a dust cover is an incomplete solution, an abomination, they should be ashamed of themselves’’

Fullers reasoning is the same….

‘’You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something (that can be improved) build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete’’

Elliott and myself may not agree on everything, but we do agree with Buckminster Fuller and the need for constant development.

 

I think the easy way out of this impasse and high blood pressure is….

 

Cover or lid, which ever way you want to play it…..

———————-

 

1. If the thoughts of dust filling your groove ruins your musical enjoyment, and have a lid…keep the lid down.

2. If you are worried that the sound will be compromised with the lid down or know it will be, as Arnie would say….’Don’t dooo iit!

3. If your hi-fi sounds great to your ears, you are happy with listening to music and you don’t notice a difference up or down….and have a lid, stick it down and save a lot of additional cleaning!

4. If you have a turntable without a lid, content or enjoy sometimes a little dusting fore play each time you want to listen….stick to a turntable without a lid!

I think l have about covered it?

That’s my Logic

 

DUST and all that!

Yes there is so much on the internet about dust!

Most comments on here and debates describe the problems of household air contamination. Within the original post the hi-fi element of turntable covers was the question…dust or sound constraints!

One thing that there has been no real quantitative answer to is, what is the shed skin %

Shed skin may not be a big percentage overall but it would certainly be one of the highest individual components. Perhaps one other high pollutant should be an added element to the debate controversial or not….

Smoking could be the biggest additional problem as by smoking habitually, intentionally (or not) adds to the mix arguably the worst pollutants of all into the living environment. Various dangerous chemical particulates and sticky nicotine just love records, electrical equipment and other clean surfaces.

If you have ever had to redecorate a house of a chain smoker the evidence is there as old nicotine burns right through a first coat. I know lots of people who advertise books, records or equipment are quick to emphasise that they come from a smoke /pet free environment.

 

Does any authority on the subject have a scientific breakdown as to approximately what percentages of household airborne components normally contain?