So how much do you think the placebo effect impacts our listening preferences?

I actually own the Focal Utopia headphones. 

I have to tell you - you are paying for beryllium (a very toxic metal) to be properly implemented inside a headphone. Why? Performance characteristics. Focal and TAD both use beryllium; getting it right isn't an easy task. 

You are also paying for carbon fiber yokes, higher than average build quality, lambskin earpads, and a cool factor/design. Are they worth the money? YES. Focal replaced my busted drivers free of charge. How do they sound? The transducers make all the difference.

You simply can't compare flagship/studio grade driver units in headphones to substandard "consumer grade" celebrity headphones. However, I think what you're saying is that the general population (most people don't care about audio as a hobby) wouldn't be able to tell a difference 🤔

That's because they do not care.

When you buy an headphone if you mod it, damp it, anyway possible the difference between before and after are relatively big sometimes NEVER colossal... Because you are stuck with the acoustical properties of the shell chosen by the designer...

This is true. Great information!

Headphones and speakers are just different. In terms of raw performance (value for the money) headphones are going to outclass speakers. Building an accurate headphone is easier for a manufacturer to get right - Since headphones have miniature driver units. On the same token, many unique materials can be used in headphone driver units and this will influence how they sound.

Some really good headphones
- Sony M1ST
- Focal Utopia
- Focal Clear Professional MG
- STAX 009/009S
- Sennheiser HD800S (and closed iteration)

With these headphones or comparable flagships, it is possible to reach incredible heights in terms of accuracy. However, the 6db rule applies whereby headphones cannot perfectly recreate bass frequencies due to the limited size and mass of their respective transducers. However, textural resolve, attack, decay, and the overall styling of the bass is far more important (and they can do each of these things well). Where speakers win is with visceral bass that we can feel within a room.

@cd318 I know your response was to @mahgister but you mentioned wanting a more accurate headphone.

For that, the Sony M1ST (newest iteration) is a strong candidate.

Okay
@soix 

Read all of this carefully before replying...

The problem with folks who tend to disagree with others on this site is...
1) they are too opinionated (and easily offended)
2) they don't provide any backing to their claims (believe they have all the answers)
3) they don't understand how to have an honest discussion (ramblings, going off topic, etc. like a high school student)

So we disagree about something. WONDERFUL.
Nothing is going to change in real life for either of us.

So you're saying that no single headphone in the world can sound like a speaker? For example, have superb imaging and soundstaging capabilities? Have you heard headphones that cost more than $20? Are you limited to your local Walmart for audio needs? Have you actually worked with professional studio monitors that cost as much as your house?

Have you ever worked in studios, with audio professionals, or even spoken to industry leaders? 🤔 I don't know...but the funny thing is you are so deeply concerned about someone else's viewpoints...you really need to get a life.

What a waste of time for you to have written all of that.

At least you made a keyboard happy.

I never tell others they are wrong about anything. I may offer a unique answer or solution, but that’s it.

Everyone is entitled to their own experiences and opinions. It’s a free country. Pushing others to believe that only your views are correct makes you less credible.

I’ve known people who owned celebrity headphones that were made of cheap plastic and sounded terrible. What did I do when they asked me what I thought?! I simply said to them - if you enjoy them, that’s what matters. I said that personally, they are not headphones I would use; but to each their own.

I never said headphones equal the performance of loudspeakers directly. If anything, you are bringing confusion to an otherwise intellectually honest discussion. People who know what they are talking about don’t have anything to prove to others; much less a community of strangers on an online forum.

If anyone is directed to the wrong information, that is not your responsibility. This is not a classroom. These folks are not your students. Can we turn to page 999 now?

@cd318

Regarding the Sony MDR-M1ST ( I think every studio should own a pair ) 

They are neutral with detail retrieval and sonic characteristics that you would typically find in more expensive headphones. They are actually made in Japan.  (They’re only about $400). As I’ve told some of my friends; the product description (intended purpose) is more important than price.

Bass: Tight - well extended, but slightly warm (this can easily be tuned)
Midrange: Accurate - the tonality/extension of vocals and instruments
Treble: Excellent - some of the best I’ve heard on headphones
Imaging: Superb - but depends on what is being played
Soundstage: Well above average (almost sounds like an open design)

One of the biggest benefits of headphones is their immediacy in terms of sonic presentation. With headphones, you only need a fairly quite room. Each headphone will provide something unique in terms of build quality, styling, and sound signature. With headphones, you get a lot of choices.

I’m not bashing speakers or saying anything negative about them. With speakers, you have many other variables to consider (room treatments, having a good room, amps, DACs, CD players, cables, etc.

Once again, to each their own. If I get a super pair of speakers/full system again, it will be when I have someone to share it with.

For now, my cheapo $500 Panasonic shelf system is fine...because I’m not being hypercritical of how it sounds. I’m using it for subjective enjoyment (enjoying lyrics, emotions, favourite instruments in songs etc.)

@millercarbon
I think everyone probably appreciates your comment. This audio hobby should not be a competition of who has the most expensive or resolving system...yours looks great btw (the room looks epic)

@mahgister

More power to you. It's good that you're able to appreciate your speakers over headphones. I remember at my old house I had carpet in my office which was ideal for speakers. 

Nobody should say headphones are better or worse than speakers. Everyone has their preferences. However, if tracking mixing/laying down a final edit are your priority, then headphones will provide great insight into a track and what needs to be fixed.

If it sounds good on an accurate headphone, it will translate even better onto speakers. 

If we get tight bass, clear midrange, and smooth treble on a track with headphones, on speakers the result will be refined again.

Have you tried listening to your speakers without the bricks on top? Does it reduce the sound quality?

@sokogear

We're not arguing about headphones or speakers. I enjoy sharing my impressions with others and learning new things as well. So many awesome posts here!

@mahgister 

Thank you for explaining the reasoning behind the concrete slabs. While I have not seen this type of application before, I must say it's a unique way to achieve better performance. Perhaps your application is superior to a common speaker stand. (and also much more cost effective). 

High internal loss characteristics may also be improved by added weight (on or below the speaker). Resonance and vibration control could also be positively impacted. I can see how this would help with performance.

Likewise, thank you for your posts. All the best with your system and any upgrades you make in the future...Your posts are appreciated.