SME V, Tri-Planar or Phantom B-44

I am running 3 arms on my TW and have listened to a few cartridges on the Phantom and moved my cartridges between my arms. It is all about arm / cartridge synergy. In that regard if the Lyra Argo is similar to the Titan I on the Phantom it will be an ideal match. I can't state enough how well the Titan I & Phantom match if you have the right phono preamp. I get an ideal 10 Hz both vertical & horizontal resonance. Spot on 10. Quite amazing and the sound matches. TW also measured a perfect 10. I honestly feel cartridges have different presentations that can sound more alike after matching is done correctly. Now I am refering to 3 way matching which includes the phono stage. What you need to realize is a phono w. too much gain might not match as well w. a medium output MC than others. I believe your phono stage is excellent & should match w. the Lyra. So all you need is the right arm.

Timnaim,

That is honestly not the case. Both are just as easy to find depending on when you are searching. The Triplanar had an update to a newer arm months ago and the new version is slightly lower in effective mass. Many Triplanars were sold then s/h. Now there is a Phantom II w. a titanium armwand. So now you will see my Phantoms Is for sale. Even the original Phantom I had a bearing update during production.

On another note, does anyone know if the Phantom II will in fact be an improvement over the Phantom I or is it due to production problems w. the ceramic armwand that the new Phantom II is being produced. Will Titanium have the same resonance control as the Ceramic armwand? Also will the effective mass be changed? This can be detrimental if the synergy w. an existing cartridge is "reduced" w. the II version.

David,

I have compared them side by side and with the same cartridge. The Ortofon is a "steal" at the price. I bet most people will be hard pressed to hear the difference. I is audible but you need to pay attention to hear it. A great tonearm.

I have compared a ZYX universe on the Schroder to a SME V and an Ikeda. I didn't try it on my Phantom. But... the ZYX performed its best to my ears on the Schroder. But I had to use the optional brass weight on my Schroder to increase the mass to have an good match w. the ZYX. Most Schroder owners don't own the brass mounting plate, just the aluminum one. The SME V performed very well but teh Schroder was far superior.

Now for my Titan I. Which is a Lyra. I used it with incredible results on my Phantom. By certain measures it is one of the best cartridge / tonearm combinations. There was no need to try it on the Schroder as the Phantom match was incredible. I then decided to give it a try just to "learn" a little more. The Titan I / Schroder combination is a must hear IMO. For me now, the Phantom is a normal arm. The Schroder is a special arm. The Titan I with the Schroder w. the Aluminum mounting plate sounded very poor again. Only after using the brass mounting plate did it come into its own. The description of the differences between the Phantom & the Schroder in relation to the Titan I include increased sense of space, detail and 3 dimensionality. This also includes more resolution of highs and a wonderful sense of body. It is a special combination. Areas of weakness are a slight loss of definition in the bass in comparison to the Phantom. The Phantom is truly a great arm, receiving an A or A-. With the Phantom I am using Tara Zero phono cable. The Schroder is a special arm that would be graded an A++ to my ears and has a single run of cable from cartridge to phono stage.

It is important to know how to setup a tonearm a use it over a period of time. A short test will not be an accurate measure of how the cartridge will sound. The Schroder takes patience & time to fine tune. Several hours. You need to live with it to get to know its sound. Not do a quick a/b test to know what is better. It is the same w. the Phantom which can be easily tuned with damping fluid over time to obtain the correct or preferred sound.

Halcro,

I am not discarding the results. BUt I did obtain different results w. the same/similar arms. (Schroder has different versions) and the same cartridge (both ZYX & Lyra). I do not seek to discount his results. But the Schroder is a very difficult arm to set up & requires more than patience. Every parameter changes everything all over. Once you set VTA, VTF changes, setting damping changes VTF etc, etc. Surely not an arm for everyone but IME it does something special that other arms don't do. This includes the SME & Phantom.

Now please explain how 2 people w. similar items get different results? Honestly that is all due to setup.

I will also tell another story that includes your name.
I heard at a dealer a Halcro/Maxx II/VTL preamp w. transparent cabling & EMM CDP. I honestly was not impressed and felt that I could expect much more.

I then heard at a friends house a EMM/Maxx II/Halcro amp/ but forget what preamp in a dedicated room. The sound was some of the best sound I ever heard. This simply goes to show setup is critical in knowing our evaluations, and taking my word or anyones elses word on these forums as the grounds for deciding a purchase can be a mistake. Reviewers have had strongly divergent opinions.

Back to phono questions, I have been able to get 2 different arms w. 2 different cartridges and 2 different phono stages to sound almost exactly the same. Switch the phono stage and instantly everything unravelled and the differences were starteling.

Sirspeedy,

Hope all is well. In short you are right about the protracted time needed in the world of analogue. In the digital world I assume it is easier but speakers will be even more difficult to setup in a matter of minutes for an a/b comparison.

Since you expressed interest in the comparison, let me just state my Phantom is the last generation in terms of bearing etc. It does not have the additional markings on the azimuth but has the latest azimuth control. No titanium armwand either (but I wonder if it is better, as the Ceramic was much more difficult to manufacture but should be better damped). I am waiting for a few people to do a comparison between the old & new Phantom. More than one would be ideal as it would give a broader perspective.

I also wonder if some of what I heard/hear between the arms is more a matter of length (9 inch vs. 10.5 for the Schroder) than tonearm design. I wanted to try my Phantom w. the optional 9.5 inch armwand, but made the mistake to order the 9 inch.

One thing for sure the damping fluid on the Phantom can make or break the tonearm / cartridge synergy. Using the recommended amount of damping fluid as per the manual is not the "right" way to go. I used much less. I would honestly suggest close to none for some cartridges.