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Smaller speaker - bigger Woofer?

This is variation on the BIG STUPID WARM SPEAKERS thread. After moving up the ranks of B&W's (now owning the 804's), I still miss something about the sound of my old $300 a pair Infinitys with their 15" woofer I owned in the 80's.

Actually about everything was wrong with them, the Emit tweeter was awful, the woofers growled at you even when they were off, but they had that big warm sound that I'm missing with more expensive/refined speakers.

That big warm sound was great with rock but also worked well with jazz and classical.

In the BIG STUPID WARM thread I heard about some good big bass speakers like the Legacy's, Dynaudio's etc, but those are monster speakers and though the room is big, the wife doesn't want monster speakers.

I'm using the newest Cary gear for electronics - prepro, amp, cd player (about $10K in electronics) so I'm not looking for cheap Infinity - Klipsch - Cerwin Vega stuff.

I'm looking for a quality speaker with a big warm sound and larger drivers in a smaller package (and no small speakers and a sub isn't the same). Does any of this ring a bell?

larryb

Showing 3 responses by didactically

didactically
142 posts
 
Bass is about moving air. Moving air is about the size of the driver.

I am using a pair of 12" Shiva woofers on each side: in open baffle design and push-pull configuration, located on the side walls near the main panels which are several feet from the wall behind.

Now let's talk about accuracy as opposed to distortion. Accurate bass in the lower frequencies is not heard that much because there isn't that much in the recordings. Due to either inferior producing and/or engineering, or simply because the musicaians do not necessarily provide it. It is not as though that was their goal :-)

Anyway, when it is there, the specific instrument, and its location in the soundstage should be identifiable.

A boom-box for instance provides a lot of bass (low frequency noise) but usually you cannot identify any instrument in the band making that 'noise'. It is magnified reinforced distortion. The 'sound' you get when woofers are located too close to the corner: exciting those pesky room modes all the more.

The 'bass reinforcment' you get by locating speakers close to the wall behind, or especially in the corner, is a euphamism for 'distortion'. That distortion then tends to smear the entire frequency range in the room, leaving the system little chance for any kind of realism in playback.

To each his own, I suppose.
didactically
142 posts
 
The problem with 'adding' sub(s) is the crossover. If the monitors go down to say 50hz, and sub(s) range is up to 100hz, or whatever, you are doubling up a 50hz range, leaving a seam in the intetration. Plus the mids of the monitors are still getting low frequency info and continue to strain under it.

With an active XO the mids can cut off at the same frequency subs are engaged for improved integration. Best is probably 100-120hz depending though.

Indicating there is something to be said for aquiring a system that is already designed. Then all that is needed is proper setup for you room.

Anyway, check out the study paper on woofer location: http://www.linkwitzlab.com LINKS link/ 'Subwoofers: Optimum number and location' / 'Getting the Bass Right' link

Both my dble 12" subs http://www.linkwitzlab.com / Phoenix / Woofer, are on the side wall next to the main panels http://www.audioartistry.com / Dvorak, severl feet from the wall behind (and those problematic corners) for that very purpose.
didactically
142 posts
 
Someone is trying to sell something :-)

Check out http://www.linkwitzlab.com for DIY sub, or full range speakers for that matter. Or just knowledge in speaker design... pretty much truth in all things audio.

A great resourse for the novice to become less vulnerable to wanna be's, and think they are's.
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