Small room, "budget priced" speaker advice, please


Hi,

I recently sold my dearly beloved, old Vandersteen 2C's here on Audiogon (and I hope SgtPeppers is loving them at this moment!) :-) I did this because in our remodeled house, my new listening room (which will double as a guest room) is just too small for the 2C's. The Spousal Acceptance Factor was just too low. ;-)

I have a PS Audio Elite-Plus integrated amp for power (around 70 W/Ch) and a soon-to-be-shipped-off-for-a-refurb Sota Sapphire for an analog front end (I have "miles" of vinyl)! I will also get a CD player at some point.

For now, I need to find a pair of best-of-breed, truly "budget" speakers. By "budget," I'm talking upper limit of $850/pair. (Gone are my free-spending, single days... I'm a dad now...) :-)

Listening habits: lots of 60's and 70's folk and rock, some jazz, Donald Fagen/Steely Dan, a little classical. Listening volume: not too loud. Sonic preferences: I value transparency and imaging/soundstage. Bass should be accurate above all, as opposed to chest-pounding powerful.

I've looked at Paradigms, which I know are highly regarded at lower price points. Trouble is, our one, local dealer is primarily a TV/home theater outfit, so you're trying to hear them in a showroom crammed with other stuff... you know the drill. I've also hit a high end shop. Listened to a pair of PSB small towers and disliked them; they sounded muddy and veiled to me. Listened to a pair of the smallest Rega's and liked them quite a bit, but would want to go back to listen again. I even wrote to PS Audio for advice; they recommended the "baby" Epos monitors, but they're out of my price range.

Thanks if you've read this far. Knowing how subjective all this is, I'd still welcome any advice you have to offer about what I should try to audition.
rebbi

Showing 7 responses by buscis2

What is the size and configuration of the room? What is your ceiling height? How far into the room is the listening position? Hard room or Soft room?
O.K.

That's not too small. I would imagine that the speakers would be on the one wall without windows? So, essentially you are working with a room DEPTH of 13 feet.

Most desirable would be a listening position three to four feet off of the "Back" wall, in turn leaving you with 9-10 feet for speaker positioning. I would suggest immediately a speaker that could be placed against the wall. That would allow you a little more versatility with your listening position.

Because of the size of the room, you may find a bookshelf speaker, even if very efficient, having a problem in a room of that configuration. With 70 watts, I would be concerned with speaker efficiency and would want something in the 89db efficiency rating minimum. I would try to avoid any type of subwoofer arrangement, so a floor standing speaker should provide enough bass reinforcement simply due to cabinetry and you would want to consider (if ported design), a front firing port as to not induce any additional wall excitation.

Considering your amplifier power and your posted listening preferences, you would want something with a fast articulate bass driver to help maintain transparency and minimize cabinetry interaction, and assuming the "other" considerations ie: clean power, quality interconnection, etc. have been addressed and are correct, do a little homework and investigate the Triangle line of speakers.

In particular, a speaker that might do a great job in a room like yours, is their "Heliade ES". 91db efficient, floor standing, front firing port, three way design, can be placed less than a foot from the wall, Stereophile "Class B" rated (for what that's worth), available new for less than what you're willing to spend. (about $700pr. from Upscale audio)

One word of caution.... A very revealing speaker. So if you are having problems upstream, they'll make you very aware of them. Otherwise, an awesome sounding speaker. They would be absolute heaven for Steely Dan and progressive jazz.

P.S. You'll need to do some room dampening!
By the way Rebbi. If you really wanna' sound like the French audio gear specialist that you'll soon be when auditioning :>)

"Triangle" is pronounced: Tree-On-Jel. That's right from the owners mouth.

Just the French pronunciation alone makes it sound like a $10,000 speaker....... Tree-On-Jel Electroacoustique. :>)

You'll sound very impressive.

Either that or you'll be accused of practicing "Bad French".

Best of luck, Ed.
Hi Rebbi. The manufacturer is "Triangle". They are a French manufacturer. The model is the "Heliade ES".

Here is the link:
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/view_category.asp?cat=31

Scroll down for the ad below:

PRICE DROP! Triangle Heliade ES (new sealed) - First quality factory sealed A stock. The Heliade is a small floorstanding speaker. Slightly smaller version of the highly regarded Altea. Fits perfectly in a small listening room, or in an office or bedroom system. Retail $1399/pr. Pick yours up today for $979 NOW $699! Full factory warranty. Available finished in your choice of Champagne, Cognac, or Bordeaux.

http://www.audiowaveshifi.com/triangle.html

Triangle is a very highly respected line. Extremely resolving. Incredible tight, snappy bass response.

LONG BREAK-IN PERIOD!! About 200 hours to calm down, but well worth the wait.

"Sonic preferences: I value transparency and imaging/soundstage. Bass should be accurate above all, as opposed to chest-pounding powerful".

Rebbi, you'll note your above statement. THAT is the reason I suggested the Triangles. YOU described the sound YOU wanted.

That is Triangle to the letter.

There are hundreds of great speakers available. I mean really great speakers. However, try to keep in mind REQUIREMENTS vs. preferences....

You NEED close to wall. You NEED efficiency. You NEED room dampening. If you don't use the above as minimum requirements, it won't make a bit of difference what the nametag says. Ultimately the sound will be less than desirable. Room acoustics could make a pocket radio sound fulfilling.

Also, and with all due respect, I disagree with a "pretty extended" or "sizzly" or "bright" definition being used in conjunction with the Triangle line. If the high frequency is being considered (in my terms) "overly significant", it is more than likely the speaker simply exposing a problem upstream IE: Bad AC, Impedance mismatches, Vibration issues, etc.

In general terms..... A speaker that is "extended" in any area of the frequency range, will have difficulty projecting imaging in a proper, balanced perspective. Triangle imaging is virtually holographic. With a 91db efficiency in that sized room, your amplification will feel like it's vacation.

Last but not least.... Room acoustics. Otherwise..... Don't blame the equipment. :>)


BTW, the Heliade ES were a "Class "B" $$$" rated speaker in Stereophile. I think it was 2004, but I'm really not sure. Maybe someone can look through their Stereophile collection?

They are a discontinued speaker (not that it makes any diff), which also kept them well within your price point. These are expensive speakers otherwise. $1500 originally?

P.S. Break-in is miserable for a couple of hundred hours.
Rebbi, May I suggest to you that since you have fairly easy accessibility to the majority of these speakers, you might want to try a couple of pairs in the room that you'll be listening.

In most cases, these stores will have a day in which they're closed. They should let you bring a pair home for that day/evening. You may be surprised as to the characteristics of these speakers utilizing YOUR power, YOUR amplification, and YOUR listening environment. That would probably provide the most accurate indicator of their performance in "real world" usage.