Sim Audio Moon Evolution Series, - I-7

I have heard some of Sims new stuff at my local dealers and most recently at the Montreal audio show last month and it was some of the best gear available at the show, which I might add included some highly regarded tube stuff. It is FAR from one dimensional. The W8 with the Dynaudio C4 was out of this world ! UHF magazine bought the new W8 to use as their reference just recently. They have some good points about Sim stuff compared to other notable competators. Every Sim I have ever heard has more than impressed me. Maybe their integrated amps are their achilles heal product... have only heard (intensively) their seperates components so I can't really comment.

There is lots of great gear about that I'm sure compares and is no doubt as good or better then the I7. I suspect if you get good system synergy with the right speakers the I7 will compete with the best stuff out there. Never heard of Cayin, apparently another Chinese manufacturer with stuff that out performs many more expensive NA peices...as is alluded too. You can probably wipe your ass with any warranty they give you but at the 1-2K price point I guess if it breaks down no great loss. Nice looking stuff tho.

Arkio, you are probably right about your last sentence, but if your Chinese gear comes from a reputable US importer such as VAS audio for Cayin, then they do stand behind their products. I had a remote controlled that needed to be exchanged - no problems and no questions asked, and all with a smile.

As for Sim Audio, try to find my post in this Audiogon thread, under the name of juaudio:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1144542394&read&keyw&zzdealer

Regretfully, you can probably wipe your's too with Sim's warranty, or at the very least, you should be in for a trying experience should you require any warranty - or respect, as I have, with no results. Beleive me, the fact that a manufacturer is located in North America should not to be taken as an automatic guarantee of good service, when in fact some manufacturers take our good patronage for granted, as Sim Audio did.

My experience is of course, an isolated event...or is it ?

I've had the I-7 in my system for over a month & it is the best sounding integrated amp I've ever heard. It has awakened my B&W nautilus 803s speakers & reinvigorated my interest in audio. The soundstage is absolutely huge , the bass is unbelieveable & the seperation between instruments is astonishing. Whether I spin vinyl or CD I'm delighted with everything I've heard so far. It does take lots of breakin & it runs very hot, but thats not a bad thing in Canada in the winter. You couldn't pry this amp from my cold dead hands.

A response to Juaudio: there is no way that an importer, even a reputable one, will support a Chinese product the way you say. If, 6 years down the road, you need service and the importer is no longer the same one, you're screwed. If the factory that built the unit in China, which builds amplifiers today, and coffee makers for Cuisinart tomorrow, is out of parts, you're SOL. But this is built into the price you paid for the unit - that is, the service you'll get. Sim, for example, has a 10 year warranty, but you have to buy it new. Even if the machine is 3 months old, and you buy it used, according to Sim, you're SOL on warranty if there is a problem. Oh, sure, they'll fix it promptly and charge you, the only difference is that it won't be free, but the quality of service is still there. Unfortunately, the days of transferrable warranties are dying, because it costs companies a lot of money and does not support their retailers. I understand that. If we shop used, we pay the used price and get the used level of service. If we buy new, it's only better. The only way out is to sell new units at a higher price, to cover the misc costs of lost sales due to transferrable warranties. Many companies won't do that, out of integrity. They don't want to make you pay a premium for something that is uncertain, that may never happen. I respect that. That's why I buy new, but I will buy used if the price is very low, but with the full knowledge that if anything happens, it's out of my pocket. That's the mark of a good company, that lays all their cards on the table.

Now, onto the issue of sound - we all have to realize that our comments are born out of personal preference. If you like tubes, for example, chances are you'll hate Krell. If you like your music served up sounding like the real thing (i.e. adjectives like warm and sweet don't apply to a live performance), then chances are high you'll forget tubes - there is just too much harmonic richness in that sound, although pleasant, but sounds nothing like the real thing. This is engineering fact, not voodoo. There are a few exceptions in both cases, but I'm talking the vast majority here, not exceptions. So, if one guy likes the Moon i-7 and another hates it, it's probably because of personal preferences, not which is better. I listen to music, not measure it, just like user RKoh said, but I like to know that what I'm listening through is equipment that has taken a general step forward towards more accurate sound reproduction, not sideways towards a more euphonically pleasing, yet colored sound. The latter is an insult to technology, and IMO, should not be pursued, despite the fact that most manufacturers represent their products that way, through proclaiming these qualities and others irrelevant to real music as abundant in their products. For buyers of these products, IMO, you'll always be in the dark, and the industry is unfortunately not helping and mostly at fault.

Audio4ever, you raise some interesting points, although I do not agree with a few of your comments such as : '' adjectives like warm and sweet don't apply to a live performance ''

I find this statement quite incredible actually.
Sorry to be blunt, but this is highly subjective and probably means that either you do not get out to hear live music much, or that you put every live performance in the same category.

Have you ever heard a vintage Martin D-188 guitar live?

How about a Boesendorfer Model 225 Grand Piano ?

How about a (name your favorite Italian or German violin here) for a live concert ?

How about the greatest ''instrument'' the human voice ?

Beleive me, there is sweetness in the air...unless what you hear is poorly amplifier sound that kills the natural beauty of such instruments, most often accomplished with solid state amplification I might add, if you attend a ''live'' concert.

There are numerous occasions where ''sweetness'' and ''warmth'' can be experienced in live music performances.

I once attended a live unamplified concert by the Dallas Symphony Orchestra. I was on a business trip. The the DSO was supposed to play outdoors at a downtown location. Fearing rain, they moved the concert inside at a nearby hotel, in a last minute arrangement. I was sitting front row smack in the middle, and was moved beyond words. Beleive me NOTHING compares to unamplified instruments as far as sweetness and warmth is concerned...

I of course agreed that everything is subjective - but understand that there are many reasons for one to buy expensive audio gear, many having to do with things other than ultimate sound quality.

I also smile with your mention that one may need service 6 years down the road, and that you may use this as one of the reasons for not buying non-North-American products.

Heck, even some local manufacturers have trouble respecting warranties even when buying new from a dealer. (Yes, Sim Audio comes to mind in this respect)

Secondly, honest now, do you feel that the average passionate Audiogoner will keep his gear for a period of 6 years? Some do of course, but in my opinion, most do not. And since most warranties cover initial owner, it becomes a non-issue.

Also, if I read you correctly, high prices, like Sim Audio gear, have a good chunk of the selling price going into the expected under-warranty-service-expenses and not quality and sound? That would make sense to me. But there IS a limit to this. Maybe this explains the high performance/quality ratio of some Chinese gear, where virtually all of your hard-earned money goes into the product - as the warranty and service issues may become non-issues over time. Think about it. It does not take a rocket scientist to fix for example, most Chinese cd players, and amps, tubes or solid state, as the parts are very often the very same ones used in higher-priced ''North-American'' gear,(which are no-longer warrantied to subsequent owners anyways) with about the same reliability record.

For me it comes down to enjoyment, pure and simple, all things considered. Forget tubes or solid state, or where it comes from. If you enjoy it and it's worth your money and effort, what else matter?

One last comment that may shed some light on your ''objective'' evaluation of Sim Audio products.

Under your user name, Audio4ever, Audiogon shows a total of 14 answered posts from you, each AND EVERY ONE concerning a rave comment on a vast selection of Sim Audio Moon gear: Moon I-5, I-7, Moon ''Rock'' amps, Andromeda, Titan amplifier,Moon P-8 preamp, Supernova cd player, CD-3.5 cd player,P-8/W-8 combination,and I'm probably missing a few.

Every single post that you put up on Sim gear sounds like you actually know these units intimately, as you speak from a high vantage point.

Now, are you connected or have interest in Sim Audio as a company? Or are you a multi-millionaire that happens to buy expensive Sim audio units every other Saturdays for you to provide expert advice on ?

I am not bashing Sim, I happen to not think very highly of their products and their prices. And this after owning (for real) two of their products. But I can respect that other people like these products and it's ok for them.

Sorry, but after witnessing all these glowing 14 posts you made on ONE manufacturer, there goes your credibility, or, more to the point, your objectivity out the window.

Let's give credit to Audiogon for being able to provide some tools in forming an opinion. Is this a great place or what ? Thanks Audiogon for giving us access to all this information !