Sim Audio Moon Evolution Series, - I-7

Audio4ever, you raise some interesting points, although I do not agree with a few of your comments such as : '' adjectives like warm and sweet don't apply to a live performance ''

I find this statement quite incredible actually.
Sorry to be blunt, but this is highly subjective and probably means that either you do not get out to hear live music much, or that you put every live performance in the same category.

Have you ever heard a vintage Martin D-188 guitar live?

How about a Boesendorfer Model 225 Grand Piano ?

How about a (name your favorite Italian or German violin here) for a live concert ?

How about the greatest ''instrument'' the human voice ?

Beleive me, there is sweetness in the air...unless what you hear is poorly amplifier sound that kills the natural beauty of such instruments, most often accomplished with solid state amplification I might add, if you attend a ''live'' concert.

There are numerous occasions where ''sweetness'' and ''warmth'' can be experienced in live music performances.

I once attended a live unamplified concert by the Dallas Symphony Orchestra. I was on a business trip. The the DSO was supposed to play outdoors at a downtown location. Fearing rain, they moved the concert inside at a nearby hotel, in a last minute arrangement. I was sitting front row smack in the middle, and was moved beyond words. Beleive me NOTHING compares to unamplified instruments as far as sweetness and warmth is concerned...

I of course agreed that everything is subjective - but understand that there are many reasons for one to buy expensive audio gear, many having to do with things other than ultimate sound quality.

I also smile with your mention that one may need service 6 years down the road, and that you may use this as one of the reasons for not buying non-North-American products.

Heck, even some local manufacturers have trouble respecting warranties even when buying new from a dealer. (Yes, Sim Audio comes to mind in this respect)

Secondly, honest now, do you feel that the average passionate Audiogoner will keep his gear for a period of 6 years? Some do of course, but in my opinion, most do not. And since most warranties cover initial owner, it becomes a non-issue.

Also, if I read you correctly, high prices, like Sim Audio gear, have a good chunk of the selling price going into the expected under-warranty-service-expenses and not quality and sound? That would make sense to me. But there IS a limit to this. Maybe this explains the high performance/quality ratio of some Chinese gear, where virtually all of your hard-earned money goes into the product - as the warranty and service issues may become non-issues over time. Think about it. It does not take a rocket scientist to fix for example, most Chinese cd players, and amps, tubes or solid state, as the parts are very often the very same ones used in higher-priced ''North-American'' gear,(which are no-longer warrantied to subsequent owners anyways) with about the same reliability record.

For me it comes down to enjoyment, pure and simple, all things considered. Forget tubes or solid state, or where it comes from. If you enjoy it and it's worth your money and effort, what else matter?

One last comment that may shed some light on your ''objective'' evaluation of Sim Audio products.

Under your user name, Audio4ever, Audiogon shows a total of 14 answered posts from you, each AND EVERY ONE concerning a rave comment on a vast selection of Sim Audio Moon gear: Moon I-5, I-7, Moon ''Rock'' amps, Andromeda, Titan amplifier,Moon P-8 preamp, Supernova cd player, CD-3.5 cd player,P-8/W-8 combination,and I'm probably missing a few.

Every single post that you put up on Sim gear sounds like you actually know these units intimately, as you speak from a high vantage point.

Now, are you connected or have interest in Sim Audio as a company? Or are you a multi-millionaire that happens to buy expensive Sim audio units every other Saturdays for you to provide expert advice on ?

I am not bashing Sim, I happen to not think very highly of their products and their prices. And this after owning (for real) two of their products. But I can respect that other people like these products and it's ok for them.

Sorry, but after witnessing all these glowing 14 posts you made on ONE manufacturer, there goes your credibility, or, more to the point, your objectivity out the window.

Let's give credit to Audiogon for being able to provide some tools in forming an opinion. Is this a great place or what ? Thanks Audiogon for giving us access to all this information !

Audio4ever I do applaud your honesty in at least showing your link to Sim Audio, thus showing a natural bias that would be considered normal under the circumstance. Still, it does technically take away from a certain objectivity in your evaluation of the Sim gear, that other members that do not have this connection might have over you.

I am sure you understand that an individual that has purchased gear with his own money, above other brands, will be perceived as more credible when compared with someone else with ties, ( current or past) to a manufacturer. It does not mean the gear is not worth an audition, but I am always concerned about superlatives from one individual, on one manufacturer, as applied to the complete manufacturer's line of products.

Even professional reviewers are often credible. When you hear things like '' I like it so much I bought the review sample'' Hogwash. I too would probably like it if I was able to purchase, let's say, a Moon W5 amplifier at dealer price, or 50% off retail. Furthermore,do we really think that a reviewer can be taken on an all-expenses paid trip to Europe, at the invitation of a manufacturer, and then be taken seriously on a glowing review ? (Pathos comes to mind here)

When evaluating or even commenting audio gear, objectivity is key, starting with no ties to either a manufacturer or dealer, and certainly no kick-back of the likes that are enjoyed from reviewers.

This is why I feel Audiogon is getting to be a bit too much dealer and manufacturer dependent, at the expense of the individual who is not in it for profit only.

I understand that manufacturers have it rough with dealers, and that Audiogon may be some kind of a threat. If Audiogon is so appealing to so many, I think you can partly blame the manufacturer-retailer system for establishing a price structure and retailer system that no longer justifies paying some of the exhorbitant prices in high-end Audio, where the dealer and even the manufacturer, once they have you money, are wondering where the next sucker is coming from.

Not always of course, there are good manufacturers and dealers still around, but they are diminishing in numbers,the dealers are, at least.

I also feel that it is up to the manufacturer to design and implement the way they will treat the customer, as this is a chain, with the manufacturer being a first important link, the dealer being a second important link.

Some others still, are thinking of the ''after-link'' or the after life their product will have in the used market, and mostly the satisfaction and well-being of subsequent users of their products. Bryston, with their 20 year transferable warranty is an extraordinary example. One that others not dare to imitate. Ever wonder why? It would be too simple an excuse to just say that Bryston makes an ordinary built and ordinary-sounding product and that the price is hyped for warranty coverage. While their is surely some provisions for this, I think the plain truth is even easier to extract. They are worth every penny on build quality and sound, have a loyal following, and are very reliable as their units plainly to not break down that often, as to not be a burden on warranty expense for the manufacturer. Talk about a winning proposition for everyone involved, including respect for subsequent owners.

Speaking only from my own humble direct experience, some manufacturers do not care much about the strength of these links, ( manufacturer and dealer) and prefer to spend big bucks on reeling the customer in, in a marketing show of ''galactic proportions'', from product sexyness that has cosmetic changes to their products faster than the time it takes for you to spell ''Moon'', to glossy ads in magazines and buying ''reviews'' in influencial magazines.

Many manufacturers do this of course. Some don't, if only because they do not have the economic means to afford it, or to have big-budget ad programs. All the better for us, I say. May take us longer to find out about worthy products by word of mouth and by actual, objective users of products on Audiogon and other sites, but sometimes this longer road is worth it, as long as people commenting are actual users having spent real money, and that their opinion is given in true objectivity.