Silver cables or copper?Any opinons.

11-04-14: Syntax
AES Standard rates copper as Standard for Signal transfer ability (=100%), Silver for example is 106, gold is around 90 and everything else is much worse. Silver can carry 6% more Information than anything else.
When the unit has very cheap RCA input plugs (brass with gold plating for example), they are in the area of 60, that means, they reduce any input signal by min. 40 % from what is possible.

Syntax, can you provide a link to that "AES Standard," which backs up those numbers and also defines exactly and clearly what is meant by "signal transfer" and "information carrying" ability?

The only thing in any of those numbers which to me makes any sense whatsoever is the 6% difference between silver and copper, which for a given gauge approximately corresponds to their difference in resistance per unit length (i.e., resistivity), and its reciprocal, conductance per unit length (i.e., conductivity).

All of the other numbers you cited appear to be either incorrect (i.e., the conductivity of gold is considerably less than 90% of the conductivity of silver and copper), or, frankly, misleading mumbo jumbo (i.e., cheap RCA plugs "reduce any input signal by min 40% from what is possible").

Also, regarding the 6% of so difference in resistivity and conductivity between silver and copper, a point to keep in mind is that that difference can be compensated for several times over by simply going one gauge size larger in copper. It can also be compensated for by simply making the copper cable 6% shorter than the silver cable. And in the case of line-level interconnects, a 6% difference in resistance will be utterly inconsequential anyway, as it will amount to a completely negligible fraction of the impedances of the components that are being connected. And the same goes for speaker cables under most although probably not all circumstances.

Therefore if in fact there is a general tendency for silver cables to have different sonic characteristics than copper cables, that 6% difference in resistance per unit length is almost certainly not the reason.

Regards,
-- Al

Runnin, did you read the last two paragraphs of my post, especially these two sentences:

Also, regarding the 6% or so difference in resistivity and conductivity between silver and copper, a point to keep in mind is that that difference can be compensated for several times over by simply going one gauge size larger in copper. It can also be compensated for by simply making the copper cable 6% shorter than the silver cable.

Regards,
-- Al

To provide an example of the point to my post just above, the difference between the resistance and conductance of a 6 foot silver cable and a 6 foot copper cable that is identical aside for the type of metal, will be the same as the difference between the resistance and conductance of a 6 foot silver cable and another silver cable that is identical except that it is about 4.3 inches longer than 6 feet.

I think it is reasonable to assume that in general there will not be a perceptible sonic difference between two silver cables that are identical except that one is 6 feet long and one is 6 feet 4.3 inches long.

Which is NOT to say that the 6 foot copper cable and the 6 foot silver cable will necessarily sound identical. It is to say, contrary to common audiophile belief, that any differences in their sonics will not be due to differences in their resistance and conductance.

Regards,
-- Al

11-10-14: Bifwynne
Al, I seem to recall reading that cables made from different metals and alloys conduct electrical signals differently because of the surface (aka skin) characteristics of the particular metal being used. Are you familiar with these concepts?

There are two potential effects that brings to mind. The first is skin effect, which results in high frequency currents tending to disproportionately utilize the outer part of a wire's cross section, and underutilize the central part. The net effect being that the resistance of the wire increases somewhat as frequency rises above a certain point. The larger (numerically lower) the gauge of the wire, the lower the frequency at which that effect begins to take place. Although it seems to commonly be overlooked that utilizing a smaller fraction of a larger cross-sectional area will result in the effect being mitigated to a significant degree.

As can be seen under "examples" in the Wikipedia writeup, "skin depth" is proportional to the square root of the resistivity of the metal being used. So among the three metals that have been mentioned, gold would be the least susceptible to skin effect, and silver the most susceptible. But silver and copper are very close, and gold is not greatly different in this respect either.

Skin effect can certainly be expected to be a significant design consideration in the case of digital cables, as digital audio signals have significant spectral content well into the RF region.

As I see it, though (despite claims that may be made in some cable marketing literature) it will be of no significance in the case of analog interconnects. Partly because for the relatively narrow gauges that are typically used for analog interconnects skin effect will not begin to occur until frequencies that are well above the range of audibility. And partly because a slight or even not so slight increase in resistance won't matter in the case of an analog interconnect, as I indicated earlier.

With respect to speaker cables I recall seeing some calculations in a paper by Bill Whitlock of Jensen Transformers, a renowned expert, indicating that under typical circumstances skin effect may result in a high frequency rolloff amounting to somewhat less than 1 db at 20 kHz (I don't recall what the exact fraction was). I suppose that may be marginally/barely perceptible to some listeners in some systems, but I'd expect it to be overshadowed by other cable-related effects, including (I suspect) those related to the dielectric.

The second possible effect your question brings to mind relates to oxidation and impurities at the surface of the conductor, which as you indicated will vary depending on the particular metal. Those impurities perhaps resulting in diode effects and rectification affecting the small fraction of the signal current which flows through the outermost part of the wire's cross-sectional area. I've never seen any calculations or measurements quantifying that kind of possibility, that would provide a feel for whether or not it has a reasonable chance of being audibly significant. But fwiw my guess would be that since the depth that would be involved is probably a very tiny fraction of the wire's cross sectional area, perhaps even measured in molecules, that kind of effect is likely to be either minimal or negligible compared to other factors in the design of the cable.

Best regards,
-- Al