There are opinions, and then there are facts. Siemens made no CCa's with shiny plates and internal date codes in the early 60's. From the 50's through 1965 they had the dull grey plate(electrostatic shield) under the getter support. From 1966 to the 80's, they had the shiny silver/chrome shield and internal date code plate(and a major difference in sonics). Once one hears those two iterations compared, without any other variables, no argument remains. That's given a system that is capable of resolving the differences(easy), ears not attached to a head convinced of preconceived notions(not so easy) and a mind able to admit the truth(even harder). Then again- No doubt there are systems so muted in their high frequency reproduction that they can use a boost there. As always- Whatever works for you is fine with me. Happy listening! |
CCa: What is It?
German Description:
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Die folgende Valvo-CCa ist keine der "Gelben Serie" zugehörende, sie ist auch nicht tailliert.
Es ist eine weiss gestempelte CCa die für die Post bestimmt war und auch entsprechend bezeichnet wurde.
(Die Namensgebung CCa impliziert schon die Post-Zugehörigkeit, aber nur bei dieser wurde es zusätzlich auf der Röhre angegeben.)
Sie besitzt den eingeätzten Code 7LH, darunter (Delta) 4D5.
Die CCa ist eine Poströhre. Also eine speziell für die Post selektierte.
(Besonders Rauscharm, Klingarm, besonders Langlebig.)
"Klingarm" is the term for low microphonics.
You often see Telefunken EF12K or AC701K, the K means Klingarm
English Description:
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CCa was an E88CC specially selected for "Post Germany"; special low noise, low microphonic, long-life 6922.
Philips had similar selections for the "Dutch Post", some tubes are selected had "PTT" etched.
The "German and Dutch Post" = telephone, telegraphie, telex, and the postal system.
Much of the telephone centrals used tube equipment and for telephone equipment you want a "noise-free" enviroment.
The letters "CC" probabably equates to "double triode", and/or a for special design. I've been using the Siemens (pre-70's) CCa's for years in my equipment because I hate microphonics, and they are the least microphonic tube in the 6922 family that I could find(I tried a bunch of the high dollar ones). I've got six in my BAT VK-D5 right now. Microphonics are a noise generated by vibrations in(or around) the tube, and these were specially designed to have much less than ordinary 6922's(as stated in the above definition). If you go the CCa route, be certain to find the pre-70's vintage(dull grey plate below the getter support and no internal date code plate). The later ones are very strident. Given the Siemens CCa's excellent transparency, clarity, timbre, imaging, sound staging and frequency extention(in both directions)- it's 10,000 hour life expectancy makes the seemingly high price of NOS ones actually a bargain. Given that you are planning to use them in a pre-amp: I WOULD try to find some that were tested for noise, and pre-amp "graded" (as with any tube intended for that circuit). |
Glory- Where are you located? I've got a spare pair of NOS Siemens CCa's and E188CC's we could try in your rig, if you're somewhere in Indiana. Not German- But I've bought a bunch of tubes from there over the years. The Internet makes it easy to do your homework, before spending a lot of money. Do you enjoy a very clean, liquid midrange, or a warmer(some people call it, "tubier") presentation? |
I'm usually at Deland Airport Thanksgiving week for the Skydiving party they host every year. I was in Perry for a few months last year(whatta hole!). If you're into the music and not the tube- the CCa's for you. The pre-70's vintage just gets out of the way of the music. I had the Siemens E188CC's in a modded SP-14 a few years back, and they were very lucid(and quiet) too- (http://www.upscaleaudio.com/product.asp?itemid=611&catid=42). Kevin has the CCa's also, but I don't know if they are the early ones. |
Mr G- Just in case you're looking at the CCa's on eBay: There are some tubes listed there that the seller claims are 60's vintage. They aren't! They've got the shiny plates and internal date code that indicate the very bright(strident) version. |
Did realjazzcat(aka tubemuseum) rip you off too Tvad? he's the only one I've been stuck by in 5 years of tube buying there. Mr G- I would pass on those CCa's. That one weaker triode section will cost you in balance, imaging and sound stage. Generally CCa's are much better matched(triode to triode)than that. Look up 'audiotubes_de' (http://myworld.ebay.com/audiotubes_de) on eBay, and contact him. He doesn't have any CCa's listed right now, but may have some in stock(West German seller and very dependable). |
Well, the cat's out of the bag... (GOOD ONE- LOL!) |
Mr G- The Lector is one of the only CDPs that I'd consider trading in my VK-D5 for(the Linn CD12 being the other). I was wondering- What tubes are you using in your 7T? Have you tried any of the 6201's in there? You might find that digital sucks less with a good tube in the mouth of the beast(so to speak). I'd be forced to find some Siemens E801CC's or Tele ECC801S's for it. |
OOPS(typo)- Make that the Siemens E81CC(or ECC801S). |
Keep up the crusade Gerrye! Neither eBay, nor Paypal are there to protect the consumer, but rather- to make LOTS of money. Good info, and much homework with regards to tubes are our only means of defence against this type of fraud. As I always say, "Caveat Emptor"! |
Andy thinks the people that know about the older CCa's are nuts because all he has to sell are the later ear-hair-burning versions. Not hard to figure out: Ignorance is bliss, and profitable too. Enjoy whatever you settle on. |
At least you're at the top of the digital ladder. No doubt about analog(done right)though. I SO miss the days when direct-to-discs, original master/virgin vinyl, 1/2 speed mastered, MFSL, Sheffield, Crystal Clear, TELARC, JVC Soundstream, Nautilus, CBS Masterworks, ET AL were inexpensive and plentiful. Technology does march backwards at times doesn't it? |
Mr T- I couldn't agree more about the risk involved buying NOS CCa tubes, or any others for that matter. Finding someone that has the right tester, knows how to correctly use it and is honest about the results is becoming increasingly hard to do. And(like any other commodity) as the price increases, so does the number of crooks. Most of the tubes I've purchased in the last few years came from Germany, Argentina(lots of Germans down there) or Australia, and those have all been excellent. Perhaps the people in those countries have a stronger moral code or something. Still- I've found myself grilling sellers before purchasing anything(I hate having to feel that's necessary). You may have noticed me ending a few posts with, "CAVEAT EMPTOR!" |
Mr G- Yes: The tubes that my-baby-world is selling are the right ones. Unfortunately: no readings are given for them. The two pair with the $306 buy-it-now price are clocked in the pics so as to hide the shield below the getter support. I would send the seller an e-mail requesting better pics of what he is purveying. |
Mr G- Sounds like a no-risk deal. He must be confident of the quality of those tubes. The $$ seems high, but I've not been tracking the cost of CCa's for a few months. Listen to them and judge if they deliver the value in music. Personally- I couldn't do without them in my present system(they spoiled me). |
Mr G- That's affirmative. His are the correct vintage. Enjoy your music!! |
I try to lead those with ears in the right directions. It makes my day to know that you are enjoying your music through them. Happy listening!! |
I wonder why no one has mentioned the Siemens E188CC/7308 as an alternative. The high end is just slightly relaxed(ala the PW), but the tube still retains the liquid/3D midrange of the CCa. A slightly more controlled bottom(but no loss of extension)compared to the PW. I've a pair of these as my "back-ups". |
Mr S- The tubes manufactured for the German telecommunications industry had to conform to certain performance specs. Kind of a parallel of our Mil Spec Standards(once upon a time). The CCa was a specially selected 10K hr, low-noise/well balanced triode ala the ECC801S, 802S, 803S. If Amperex made and exported the tubes for that application, they would have been a higher grade of the standard PW. I'd like to hear those myself. |
