Should people who can't solder, build or test their speakers be considered audiophiles?



  So, if you bought that Porsche but can only drive it and not fix it do you really understand and appreciate what it is? I say no. The guy who can get in there and make it better, faster or prettier with his own hands has a superior ability to understand the final result and can appreciate what he has from a knowledge base and not just a look at what I bought base. I mean sure you can appreciate that car when you drive it but if all you do is take it back to the dealership for maintenance and repairs you just like the shape with no real understanding of what makes it the mechanical marvel it is.
  I find that is true with the audio world too. There are those who spend a ton of money on things and then spend a lot of time seeking peer approval and assurance their purchase was the right one and that people are suitably impressed. Of course those who are most impressed are those who also do not design, build, test or experiment.

  I propose that an audiophile must have more than a superficial knowledge about what he listens to and must technically understand what he is listening to. He knows why things work and what his end goal is and often makes his own components to achieve this. He knows how to use design software to make speakers that you can't buy and analyze the room they are in and set up the amplification with digital crossovers and DSP. He can take a plain jane system and tweak it and balance it to best suit the room it is in. He can make it sound far better than the guy who constantly buys new components based on his superficial knowledge who does not understand why what he keeps buying in vain never quite gets there.

  A true audiophile can define his goal and with hands on ability achieve what a mere buyer of shiny parts never will. So out comes the Diana Krall music and the buyer says see how good my system is? The audiophile says I have taken a great voice and played it through a system where all was matched and tweaked or even purposely built and sits right down next to Diana as she sings. The buyer wants prestigious signature sound and the audiophile will work to achieve an end result that is faithful true to life audio as though you were in the room with Diana as she sings. The true audiophile wants true to life and not tonally pure according to someones artificial standard.

 So are you a buyer or an audiophile and what do you think should make a person an audiophile?
mahlman
"" Gosh, mahlman, you’re very observant. Did you take a smart pill this morning? "
  It's all natural with the exception of the caffeine.  Don't bother me right now. I am busy shooting fish in a barrel.
Geoff is the life of the asylum!! The stories he come's back with from his daily work program outing, has the other patients rolling in the padded room. He love's music so much, before they give him back his Walkman, they have him wear his special "audiophile jacket". They call it that, so he feel's good about himself. It is white and ties (his arms) in the back, so he won't hurt himself. Yeeeesss we all love geoffee. There there, they say.

     I enjoy all of geoffkait's posts.  They're typically humorous, irreverent, relevant, clever, slightly rebellious and always entertaining.  Every comedian has an inventory of favorites they rightfully consider gems, puts them in a rotation, slightly modifies them as the topic or target dictates and sprinkles in new material as they naturally occur in a funky fun guy's mind. 
     I believe geoffkait is often just filled with an overwhelming and ebullient sense of being pretty and witty. I say: You go girl!

Love,
 Tim
XOX   
Perhaps it’s time to stop sitting on your face, arachnidism. 🕷 
You use that fish in a barrel joke quite often. Perhaps it's time to replace your trusty joke book, the pages must be tattered by now anyway. Hey, how about trying monkey's in a barrel for a change. Nothing's more fun than, ... you know. 🐵
Gosh, mahlman, you’re very observant. Did you take a smart pill this morning?

isochronism
Geoff, Yesterday a post of mine was removed. Going by Agon’s guidelines of the four offered reasons, in their email to me, abuse towards another member" had to be it. The only member it possibly be toward is you. Was I wrong? 😔

>>>>Give me a couple days to think about it and I’ll get back to you ASAP.
" Once a troll always a troll. If people respond sometimes it’s like shooting fish in a barrel. 🐟🐠🐟🐠 "

  This is true. I see you are up to 23,178 posts now
Geoff, Yesterday a post of mine was removed. Going by Agon's guidelines of the four offered reasons, in their email to me, abuse towards another member" had to be it. The only member it possibly be toward is you. Was I wrong? 😔
Once a troll always a troll. If people respond sometimes it’s like shooting fish in a barrel. 🐟🐠🐟🐠
mahlman: 
" " I will say the manure is spread deep 😄 "
  Have to have it to grow good crops.

     I do enjoy threads that begin with a premise that is full of manure.  These manure ball threads tend to roll downhill quite naturally and satisfyingly well.

Tim
What’s this, Revenge of the Nerds II? Inmate Uprising III? High School Confidential? 😬
I don't think this was necessarily a superb video it was just the first one that amused me. Have to admit I was thinking of the $250 beeswax impregnated fuses and $60,000 speaker wires (Hey that is what they are, right?) I have seen for sale and found some of the comments funnier than the video. It's the utter absurdity of so much of what I read that was on my mind when the video was picked and I was not going to waste much time looking for the perfect one.
  The pretentious flowery audiophile jargon seen in so many listings is an immediate danger flag to me that says here are people buying/selling things based on phrases as much as anything. Then they can turn around and tell their friends what they are hearing in those same exact words and it looks cool and on and on it goes. What was it PT Barnum said some time ago?

My belief is a lot of the claims I read for a lot of "audiophile" grade must have improvements are just junk and word salad meant to appeal to the same bunch that inspired this thread. Beside this video were many others extolling the virtue of wires and fuses and speaker cables with directional arrows because you know electricity follows the arrows. Most were hawkers of such gear or reviewers sent free gear I figure.
There's a whole slew of "audiophiles" on this site who could have made that same video and posted the same inane comments. Having a lot of interest in something doesn't automatically fill your head with knowledge, and it sure doesn't make you any good at it. As with all things, you have to work at it. 
OK we have had "what this thread needs" and now here is "What This Site Needs"........  comments are killer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nE8f0MANcI
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Geoff' bad experience in schools came from him being forced to wear the pointy hat often, i.e.: Dunce Cap.

geoff would probably drive his therapist out on the ledge...
Nah, he seems to be an easy one.
geoffkait,

"I stink, therefore I am. - robberrttddidd, exhibit A of the public school system 😬"
What do you have against public schools? Is it from personal experience? Where was it? University of Virginia?
"...because they make him feel inadequate?"
I doubt that geoffkait ever feels inadequate. His therapist told me.
Have you ever noticed @mahlman, that Mr. Pebbles only makes fun of the people who don't know much because they are easy marks and attempts to discredit those who do know their stuff because they make him feel inadequate? We should probably go easier on him. That's a lot of baggage to be carrying around from 6am to 10pm.
isochronism,

"...in the true nature of Porsche, there should only be room for two. In the evolution of the mark anything is now permissible."
Two-seater Porsche cars arrived to the scene later than tractors (one seaters?), tanks to some extent, and hybrids for, I think, four people.
" I prefer to refer to him as "Mr. Pebbles". "
 It ties in to other things he has. Have you ever heard of Pebble Reactors? What I think is that if you pried one of his flying saucers apart you would discover a miniature reactor powered by, of course, pebbles. He has commented on his superior alien taught technical skills in this very thread so who knows what all he does in "Area X".

  Probably a graduate of Alien Technical University although since we are not supposed to know aliens are among us the degree is not official or public.
I stink, therefore I am. - robberrttddidd, exhibit A of the public school system 😬

Geoffy baby, U mind if I call U that?


I prefer to refer to him as "Mr. Pebbles".
Post removed 
" I will say the manure is spread deep 😄 "
  Have to have it to grow good crops.
" >>>>>You’re close! Very close. He has started the anti audiophile anti-tweak movement. No tweakaphobe left behind! 🤗 Next up, are anti audiophiles actually snobs? "
Geoffy baby, U mind if I call U that? Apparently you are one of the ones who has comprehension problems. Tweaking is where it is at as I clearly stated to begin this wonderful thread.

I guess you must be starting a reality distorting anti-reality anti-truth and no alien left behind movement. Next up are anti-flying saucerphiles actually snobs or just normal people?
" All I can say, mahlman you're the man.

You have just started the anti audiophile snobbery movement.

I am following you now

Kuddos! "
  Well I thank you for the compliment.  Speaking as a farmer might for just a second here. There is just so much fertile soil here to till and it grows such fine crops with huge yields. Just have to check in every once in a while and spray for bugs. 
Yes, you are as healthy as any highly evolved (read obsessive) audiophile can be expected. Meaning normal in this group 👍
glubson, I went back to re-read the beginning of original post and you're correct there. What cockamamie thread is this anyway?? I suppose an analogy would be if you go out for a drive in a nice Porsche, you may never know where you'll end up. In regard's to your question, in the true nature of Porsche, there should only be room for two. In the evolution of the mark anything is now permissible. I'd very very satisfied with an old air-cooled car.

isochronism,

I was revisiting the very first words of the OP...


"So, if you bought that Porsche..."

glubson, your question can take a back seat to the original OP topic.. soldering.
Post removed 

Could we get back on the topic of OP?

So, is Panamera with rear bench seat a real Panamera, or a hint that driver is just a pretender?

To turn this argument around, Is a tone deaf repair person a better audiophile than a lifetime enthusiast who plays many musical instruments.  I think not.  Maybe it's fun, but being able to make something sound better is rare, and not necessary, but a nice adjunct to audiophilia.
let's be absolutely real though. A turntable SHOULD be included! Records are KING!

luciano33
All I can say, mahlman you’re the man.

You have just started the anti audiophile snobbery movement.

I am following you now

Kuddos!

>>>>>You’re close! Very close. He has started the anti audiophile anti-tweak movement. No tweakaphobe left behind! 🤗 Next up, are anti audiophiles actually snobs?
True audiophiles know who they (he/she) are and don't need to convince anyone. Their music is at a high level of satisfaction BUT and AND it always can be better. Systems don't NEED a turntable or be SELF-soldered.

All I can say,  mahlman you're the man. 

You have just started the anti audiophile snobbery movement.

I am following you now

Kuddos!
"" Im an Audiophile i hire a dude to do my soldering and get MAGICO to build my speakers.HELLO!!!! "
   Well I don't know about all that. What true audiophile standards have you met to get into the penultimate audio category?
Im an Audiophile i hire a dude to do my soldering and get MAGICO to build my speakers.HELLO!!!!
Hello geoffkait,

     Yes, those north side yuppies can get unruly when well lubricated.

     I also enjoy wearing a bra on my head after a few cocktails for a look with a hint of wackiness, promiscuity and devil may care all rolled into one.

Tim