Should I buy an SME 30/12A for 15K?

The following is a Post I have put in another thread very recently.

OL (Origin Live) The assessment being given is in relation to their long-term owned SME and not the Idler Drive.

The Belt Drive TT has their attraction.

The Cartridge used is a Sumiko Pearwood.

If considering used and can the want to purchase can be slowed down for a period of time, this type of set up can be found for close to £6500 if buying Used and New combined.

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A friend who has been a long term owner of a SME 20 / 12 using a SME V.

Not too long ago changed the TT and after a Idler Drive Experience has chosen a Scheu TT, that is modified with OL TT Parts and has a OL Illustrious. Their assessment as they have the best recollections of A respected Belt Drive Set Up in the home system is that it is a exceptional TT and great VFM.  

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Has the Collection of 100 Albums been collected over the past two years.

Have you bought Individual Albums or some Batched/Job Lot deals and are they New.

I am going to assume, and happy to be corrected if inaccurate, about your purchases of Albums.

Have the accumulated 100 Albums been purchased as Individual New Items over the past Two Years ? In my assessment in the present Marketplace, the cost for such Source Material will be close to $2500 for the Items without Shipping Costs. This is a Big Commitment by a Hobbyist, when there is other Recorded Source Material available most likely of the same recordings, that can be attained at lesser outlay, especially as you have a investment in Digital already. 

I have heard a Digital Set Up used in a Predominantly Vinyl Source System, that has a New Purchase Price of approx' £5K present itself as very attractive as a comparison to the Vinyl Set Up with a New Purchase Price of approx' £25K.

Getting the absolute best from Vinyl using the Mainstream Brands as either Used or New Purchases can accumulate to substantially more in costs that creating as a attractive presentation using Digital as the Source Material.  

I am a little like your approach to the Vinyl LP as a Source in relation to the Digital Source. I have not too long been into Digital and have created a Digital Set Up in the main system only a few years ago. I had to purchase CD's as the only ones available were used in a Car or a few of my Son's Gangsta Rap type of genre.

The Digital Set Up put together with very limited investigation and experience, even though guided by some who are experienced in Digital,  has created a Source that integrated into my System very well, it is very attractive to have musical encounters with, and it has been used in place of the Vinyl Set Up on numerous occasions. 

 

In my local HiFi Group the presentation of the Modified SP10 MkII has created quite few changes to how Vinyl Replays are carried out.

A Heavily Modified Mitchell Orbe was exchanged for a SP10 MkII.

A Heavily Modified Upgraded Linn L12 was exchanged for a SP10R.

A SME 20/12 was the go to TT within the Group, and shortly after the growing popularity of the SP10 Models was sold on as it was believed there was more to be achieved. This is now being described as a proven outcome as the Scheu with OL Upgrades and the OL Illustrious are now claimed to be an improved Belt Drive Set Up.

A member who is time served as a CD Aficionado, has dug into their Stores and now has a SP10 MkII on the Workbench to put to use.

The Modified SP10 MkII that is an ongoing project, has put my long term involvement with Modifying Idler Drives to bed. Even my professionally Modified Model with Purpose Produced Speed Controller does not get a look in, it is a demo' or loaned model only now. It was the Idler Drive TT, that finished my relationship with the Linn Deck used in the 90's.

Apart from the SP 10R and Tonearm coming in at approx' £16K new, none of the other options have been costing anywhere near the $15K for the SME under question.

Additionally, I feel quite confident in stating, the resale of the Originally Owned TT's by a couple of the owners who have sold their TT's on, have been left with spare monies in the coffers when the replacements that are claimed to be a betterment have been purchased and brought up to a desired Spec'.  

 

    

  

When it comes to assessments about the SP10 MkII and the SP10 R.

I am sharing in communications across the Globe about the comparisons being put in place between the SP10's from Vintage through to the most recent production.

The SP10 R I listen to regularly, has a 30mm Thick Polished Aluminium Plinth produced by an Engineering Shop at a cost of £400.

The Dealer who supplied the TT. encouraged and introduced the TT owner to the method to achieve the Plinth, and produce a Mimic Plinthed version of the Plinthed SP1000 R.

As said previously the Standalone Tonearm Pod has been so successful the Glanz MH-1200s Tonearm remains mounted on it.

This Set Up impresses with a large impact, it has a very desirable SQ, but it does not separate in any noticeable measure from the Modified Vintage Models and take the lead with a clean set of heals as being suggested.

It was my Modified MkII and Bespoke Produced Tonearm that that is the foundation for these abandonment of individuals Old Ideas, and the influence that created the individuals to move to modern thought out designs.

A Multi £0000's Linn TT is a Superseded Table in relation to the SP10 R owner.   

The demonstrations of my Modified SP10 MkII and Tonearm, has also been the encourager to abandon another sort after Belt Drive for a Modified SP10 MkII and additionally, be the stimulus to another to produce a scratch designed / built Tonearm.

The MkII's that are now within the groups ownership, when produced in earlier guises, i.e, Plywood and MU25 Board Plinths have impressed with Parity to the SP10 R. The group consensus on this is unanimous.

The latest guises of the MkII's are much more evolved, as the Densified Wood used as a Plinth Material and allocation of P'holz for the exchange of other parts, is extremely notable for the improvement over the Plywood Plinth.

There is imminently to be tried a 'Densified Wood Chassis', reports from others based in other Countries is that this as a methodology, is a substantial improvement, as a design and impact for the better on the TT's presentation.

The Bespoke Built Tonearm Design in use having undergone fine tuning, and the Built from Scratch Tonearm having been given additional modifications, have proved, as a result of the extended works carried out, to be works that have exceptional valuable to the betterment. 

Prior to the individuals in another Country adopting Densified Wood Plinths, there was a few versions of the SP10 MkII in a Modified Form in use.

One owner who was a SP10 R owner and was involved in the modification works being undertaken got the point their 'R' was no longer the attractive TT, the modified Mk II was performing better than it.

The MkII today still remains their TT of choice and has recently been mounted in a Chassis produced from Densified Wood, and is being claimed to be the best to date (not my words). 

Make no mistake when covering a MkII as a TT Only, there is a substantial performance on offer for a very fair outlay, even if the route to achievement is a little of the usual trail for certain individuals. Technica got a lot correct in the days of the MkII being designed, add to this modern design approach and materials use, a lot more is to be extracted. 

For the cost of Donor SP10 MkII, @ $800 -1500. A Service from a trusted Technician with the correct background and Skills @ $300ish. A 25mm Board, 20-25 Veneer Ply's per 25mm Thickness, Orientated Veneers in a Cross Grain Structure, Phenolic Resin Densified Wood Plinth @ $200ish per Plinth Blank. Professional Machining of Plinth Blank @ $150ish.   

For approx' $2K, there will be a need to bring along TT's that are a substantially increased Value as the attempt to see where the MkII falls short.

Add to this design a MkII with a Speed Control Modification, a Densified Wood Chassis and a Platter Bearing Modification, Platter Modification. It will be most likely any TT available over $20-30K and upwards, might be the starting place required to show where a difference is to be discovered that is deemed as being a performance that is a betterment.

I am sure of the results from carrying out the methodology above, there is too much available info' from differing sources to confirm the findings are very valuable and wanted to be maintained.

This is now a method be be investigated to be used on the Denon DP-80.

At this stage of planning for the DP-80, I don't see too many hurdles to be a concern. Even the Bearing Housing Design has shown that it is quite an attractive structure and is a ideal donor for a modification, it can be easily worked with, to improve on the Old Design and potentially worn out part that is present. 

     

OP Stated " Thoughts? 

Also, is this as great an offer as I think it is, are there better TTs at 15K$ retail price (I cannot/will not buy used) than the SME 30/12A? "

 The OP hasn't been exactly met with their request made to learn of a TT that will cost as a New Model $15K and better the SME 30/12A.

As I have a good knowledge of the SME 20/12, as a result of being demo'd it on numerous occasions, I am sure that I prefer a DD Drive and the Models put forward such as the SP10 R and SP 1000R are seemingly on budget to the request made.

The SP 10R with a careful Tonearm Selection 'will' be a Tool with all the capabilities to offer a 'mind blowing ' experience. I have shown how the SP 10R can be produced as a replicant of the SP 1000R for a much more affordable outlay.        Adding a $4Kish Tonearm of ones choice to the 10R, and not being limited to the 1000R Arm, will get a TT and Arm for approx' $13K, that will see off most of the competition. Extend the option on a Tonearm to a used item at a $4Kish cost and there is a serious TT for the money, not much to contend with it up to a £100K, to show where it is with shortcomings. I know this as a first hand experience from regularly experiencing one in use, and having been demo's substantially expensive TT's over the years. 

It seems like 'mind blowing' and 'Outperform Digital' and worth 'Stretching to the Purchase Price for a discovered Item, as an attempt to maintain the experience', is the assessment formed during and following the OP's SME encounter.   

As the OP has informed of their inexperience around all things relating to a Vinyl Source and their (knowing next to nothing about about Set Up). I am eagerly keen to direct their attention away from a Belt Drive design and the continuous complexities to the attentions required to keep it on point as a function.

The New DD TT models as referred to, is a much more user friendly experience and will be much more suited to an inexperienced individual, the value of the DD TT will be easily attained and maintained, not such a story with a Belt Drive.

The reference to the SP10 MkII is a more awkward one to throw into the line up.

The MkII is used (not the OP's wish).

The MkII is very capable and with serious potential, the route is made clear with an outline costing. Add to the $2ish outlay a $4Kish New/Used Item Tonearm ( The OP might be excited about a used item SME V 9" or 12"), there are very good options on Tonearms at this price point. There is only one outcome, a TT that will standout in a comparison to its later produced sibling models, and as made known, as the experience of one SP 10R / Modified MKII Owner.                                                    The MkII in a very early stage of receiving modifications was capable to put the Newer Generation 10R out to grass.                                                                   Once more I am experiencing the MkII undergo modifications that are picking up where the mod's are quite evolved and notable for the impact made and improvements perceived. I have no doubt the SP10 MkII I am listening to, to assess the works undertaken, is improved over the 10R I visit regularly.

When the P'holz Chassis MkII is in use, which is imminent, the 10R will be sat aside it for assessment, the 10R Tonearm will be used, also the 10R Tonearm can be be mounted on the P'holz Chassis, if the owner wishes to detach the arm from the Standalone Arm Pod and do this.