Hi dogpile
If you know the Triplanar can you tell me wich counterweight(s) I must use for a 9,5 g cartridge .They furnish 4 counterweights ( 1 big beveled and 3 smallers flats) .
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HI Dogpile and Doug
First of all thank you VERY MUCH for your suggestions and PRECIOUS help.
Doug.
I cannot try right now what you advise to me because I had to send the TP back yesterday evening : the fine adjustment of azimut has been damaged by ANOTHER person (although it is a NEW ARM ????? )
I think It didn't have any influence on the problem that I descibed to you yesterday as the adjustment seemed to be visually perfect (the head shell was exactly in a horizontal positon )
VTA was perfectly tight (adjusted in a horizontal position) with the tower nearly in its highest position, as the armboard on my new Verdier is very low compared with the platter position.
I had the same problem ( in lower proportions) with the same cartridge and my Rega RB 900 wich was my previous tonearm before using the TP wich I received only last saturday. So I was also thinking it could be also a problem with this cartridge itself ( breaking in or anything else ...)
So I'll follow your advices when the TP is back wich I hope the sooner as possible (???) and I 'll give you news at this moment . I am afraid it's not tomorrow morning !!!
Thanks again
André |
Dear DOUG
My SUT is actually an Audio Note ANS2 with two positions :
20 ohms and 80 ohms
Considering only the technical facts could you tell me wich output voltage would match the best with my actual SUT if I CHOOSE AN AIRY 3 X SB.
Considering musical facts is the difference between the 2 versions very important.
Thanks |
Hi doug
I don't know exactly the gain value so I have send a mail to Audio note and I expect an answer.
What I can tell you is that the level was perfectly correct with the Shelter wich is 0,5 mV and much lower with A DL 103 wich is only 0,30 mV .
I could also be interested to buy A Bent SUT ( if possible from France)if I am sure to be able to adjust the GAIN and the Load myself .
André |
HI doug
I' am wondering too !!!! ( for the damage)
Thank you for the precisions concerning the Shelter .
I'll modifie the armboard to get it higher . However , now that I am using the REGA again with no special problems of height, I confirm that the problem I described you in my first message is still audible (piano with vibrato!!) and the headshell is lightly but clearly shaking lateraly ,especially at the beginning of each side whatever the anti -skate is.
I 'll give you some news as soon as I know what will happen with the TP ( because I want absolutly a new one THIS TIME).
Thanks again, André.
PS : excuse me but I don't understand what the abbreviation QC means (I am French).
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I had not this problem with my AUDIO NOTE IQ 3 before using the shelter .
Unfortunately I cannot try it again as I have lost the screws to set it up.
A friend will lend me a DL 103 so I can do the test...
OK for QC ( good explanation!!! ) |
Doug
It happens (very audible ) with piano records and not during the entire side ( but almost every time at the beginning of each side) . When the sound of the note is going on after the attack it seems there is like a vibrato ( tremulous) in the sound .
I have tried a lot of different records like EMI or RCA or else.They seem well drilled but I will check it .I effectively never had the problem with extra flat DECCAS 200 g reeditions.....but I have a lot of records and they are not all Deccas 200 g
Perhaps the problem comes from records but the fact is that I did'nt hear it with the AUDIO NOTE.
I hope that increasing the quality of he cartridge is not synonimus with leaving the half of my records on the shelves !!!!
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Thank you DOGPILE for the suggestion.
André |
Doug
1) The Tremolo appears not only but ESPECIALLY on the beginningof the side but it may also happens at the end or even sometime in the middle of it.It seems to me that the problems comes with certain modulations and that it is amplified where the record is not PERFECTLY FLAT ( the beginning for example)
2) I 'll do the test with the Shelter/DECCA tomorrow morning.
Thanks
André |
Hi Doug
I have not found any decca 200g with stong attacks of piano or else.
I have listen during one hour to different records with the Shelter / Rega and what I can confirm is that the problem is much lighter (x 10 )with this combination( a few seconds here and there but always exactly at the same moment than with the Triplanar/ Shelter)
How is it possible? Is there a flaw in the cartridge amplified with the Triplanar ? Is it a question of bad adjustment( my fault) ?
COULD THE TP BE DAMAGED BEFORE IT HAS BEEN SENDED TO ME ?
I' ll do the trail with the DL 103 as soon as possible but if your supposition should be that the TP is DAMAGED please tell me because it will influence my attitude regarding warranty because they could propose me only to repair it and not to change it for a new one ( for the moment I am still waiting their proposition).
Thanks Doug |
Hi again doug
I have listen more carefully :
For example with the NOCTURNES DE CHOPIN BY WEISSENBERG ( EMI ) , this impression of a piano with tremolo is almost always there , much much lighter than with the TP but always present above all when the note is during after the attack ( stong or not stong attack) .
I think it was important to give this precision before you answer.
André |
Doug
I have made the test with the Dl 103 on a lot of records and what I can say is that where the problem of vibration existed with the Shelter it is still worse with the DL 103 whatever is the VTF ( from 2,2 to 2,6g ) on it.
I have really observed the records where the problems appear and what I can say is that when the record is not PERFECTLY FLAT +++ and PERFECTLY DRILLED +++the tonearm has a visible vibration (verticaly or horizontaly) wich is particularly audible with pianos records.
The Audio note seemed to have more tolerance to these kinds of flaws and that the reason why I did'nt hear them before using the Shelter.
What is your opinion?
Thanks for your help .
André
PS / I 'll Receive a brand new TP next week (at last a good new)
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Dear Raul
The different test I am doing for three days are done with the RB 900 / shelter or DL 103 as the TP has been sended back and the problem with this tone arm ( RB 900) is still present.
.However I can confirm it was still worse with the TP but it is possible its my fault ( bad adjustment). So as soon as I receive the TP I ' ll set it up higher than last time and I 'll use exactly the CW as DOUG told me.Then I'll try to find the good adujstments for VTA and antiskating .
But today my feeling is that the lower the compliance is( as the AUDIOnote was) the most tolerant it will be faced to flaws of the records and vice versa.
In one sense I hope I am wrong...
André.
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Hi DOUG HI RAUL
I completly agree about the idea that the TP increases the problem because of its performance rather than because of any damage on it (we will see this next week).
Doug : thanks for the Teres motors idea ( I have soon sended an E- mail to have details).
What do you both think about the idea that the stiffer the cartridge is the most perfect the records must be ?
Thanks
André |
HI doug and Raul
I have a new element:
I have found two screws to set up the AUDIO NOTE IQ 3 again with the rega turtable and the rega tonearm
I finally can also hear that the sound is no as straight than I thought before. It is MUCH MUCH lighter than with the Shelter or the DL 103 but it also has a tendency to produce little vibrations on the tonearm and to spoil the sound a little .
It sounds now ( with the IQ3) sometimes like" old records " what I thought normal before using the shelter .
To summerize my observations after one week
With the rega turntable / rega tonearm
The best ( the less bad ) combination to minimize the problem of vibrations is with the AUDIONOTE cartridge
Then comes the Shelter
Then the DL 103 wich is the worse
The combination Verdier/ TP / Shelter is worse than each combination above to avoid vibrations ( certainly due to the qualities of such an equipment) when records are not perfects .
Of course the Shelter is far better than both the AN and DENON in all other considerations when it is matched to the REGA .
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Hi Doug and Raul
At last I have received my new TP for two days.
Every thing looks OK .
Doug.
Your advice about CW works perfectly ...still just some problems with bad records but 90 % of my collection are listenable.
Could you please tell me what kind of wire is mounted with the TP ?
Many thanks to you.
Raul
Thanks to you also for your participation ...
The combination Verdier /Tri planar/ Shelter is technically OK and really great musically ... even if there is still a lot of possible progression .
André |
Bonjour Doug and Raul
Raul
TO BE MORE PRECISE I should say 99% of my records are correct. Some of my Lp ( most of them are second handed) have a succession of tiny waves certainly due to warmth or bad stockage or both.On these records of course the TP / Shelter still shakes but I think now that it is normal ... I only didn't hear it with the Rega /audio note because it was less transparent and perhaps (???) the TP/Shelter has less tolerance than the Rega / audio note when reading a bad record .
Of course it doesn't matter.
Doug
I think I still have to improve the Verdier ( try the Teres motor with the mylar tape as you told me before)
The Shelter is quite new... but I effectively already think to go farther perhaps with a Zyx ( wich model to really feel a difference?) or the Shelter 90 X or a Koetsu ( Rosewood ) ...I don't know wich one would match the best the TP
I am also in relation with the Audio Note dealer here in France , he is a very kind and serious guy ... Did you already hear the Audio Note cartridges ( the Io I for example) ?
You tell me that the Tp 's wire is copper , is it a problem if the two next modulation wires( From step up to preamp and from preamp to amplifiers)
are pure silver ( audio note AN V).
Would it be better to have exactly the same wire ( discovery) everywhere?
A bientôt
André |
DOUG
You are completly right , the best solution is to try every equipment in your own system before buying.
Unfortunately that's quite impossible in France with all what concerns the Vinyl equipment: turntables ,cartridges, tonearms , step up or Head amps ...
because it's only interesting a few people and therefore it is not developped
by the sellers (excepted for budget equipment).
So it is difficult to describe my sonic goals as I have no precise references.
What I can say is that I want a sound wich is the more natural as possible(NO COLORATION at all) with the more details as possible ( no agressivity, no HARSHNESS) .
I am listening to 60% classical and 40% jazz .
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Hi Doug
Read your rewiews ...It makes me dreaming
However could you answer those basics questions:
In your opinion how many hours before retipping a cartridge ?
How much does it cost for an AIRY 3 and for a UNIverse?
Do you still use your SUT Bent AUDIO with the UNIverse?
Thanks
André |
Hi Doug
Thank you for all the infos.
Could you just tell me if I' m not wrong:
The ideal impedance for the SUT with both AIRY 3 and UNIverse is 6,6 ohm with 0,24 output version ?
(Would it be 13,2 ohm with the 0,48 mV version?)
How is it possible to adjust so precisely the impedance on the SUT ?
Many thanks
André |
Hi Raul and Doug
One Friend of mine who owns a T3 F Goldmund and a Goldmund Reference TT tells me that with LINEAR tonearm the cartridge can last five times more than with a pivoted tone arm ; is it true ?
Sonically did you hear the differences between a good linear and a good pivoted tonearm?
André |
Dear Doug
I have contacted John Chapmann from Bent .
I provided him the specifications of my preamp to know if the standard ratio 1:10 for gain is correct with both airy versions ( 0,24 and 0,48mV). In his opinion it is enough.
I would be pleased to have your opinion on this precise point regarding only the best way to make the 0,24 mV version working fine .
Thanks
André
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Doug
Thanks for this usefull info.
My Jadis JP 80 provides 48 dB , so it should work even with the 0,24 mV version wich seems the best choice according your review. |
Doug
Do you know what could be the consequences if matching an Airy 3 SILVER version with a COPPER SUT ? or the opposite?
André |
Dear Raul
I have already tried this solution with my audionote MM IQ3 wich is the top MM cartridge at Audionote
Of course when my cartridge was worned and before beginning all this thread I had thought to go on either with HOMC or with a better MM cartridge wich could avoid me this problem of searching the good headamp or the right SUT;
I plug the wire of my tonearm in the jadis and that's all: SIMPLE
Two friends much more experimented than me have also the same jadis equipment ( MODIFIED ) with much better sources ( Goldmund ref + T3F +koetsus or shelter90X) and great loudspeakers and the result is great .
Of course they both use an head amp personnaly made for them by the first ingeneer from JADIS .
Most of the people who choose a Jadis JP80 Choose the MC version because they say it is the only one to choose and they add an head amp or a SUT.
Are they all wrong ?
It seems now there are two solutions in your opinion :
1) I keep my Jadis MC and I choose a MM or a HOMC cartridge
2) Change my preamp
The first one could effectively at least be tried but precisely with wich cartridge.
The second one is unconceivable for me today because it is a too much heavy change for me and because I think I still have a huge progression in front of me even with the jadis .
Of course Raul I really appreciate your effort to drive me in the good direction and I can't contest or approve your opinion as I have no references enough to do it .
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Hi everybody
Really great to discuss with you all...at least things are clearer now .
Doug and Raul
Thank you for your support...
Sirspeedy
Thanks for humour... always welcome.
Bye
André |
Raul
You are speaking of PP with high gain and no SUT in it is it the case of the JADIS JP 80 MC version?
Who are these other builders and which models are you thinking of ?
Thanks |
it should be still worse if Doug had puked in Raul's ferrari while scaling the Everest.. |
