Shelf Material - Neuance


I started a thread a month or so ago trying to find opinions on the best shelf material. I got some good new ideas, and tried them all out - except one, Maple Butchers Block. McMaster did not reply to my emails concerning Maple Butchers Block - not unusual, I have found many US companies turn a deaf ear to anyone from another country. I did try some local butchers block - stips of heart timber glued together, and the spectral balance was very good, but pace was poor. If Maple is better then it must be much lighter than what I was using (Weight = energy storage = poor pace). The best I tried was a very classy looking Neuance shelf, which you can find out about at www.neuanceaudio.com. I think subaruguru was also trying one and so it will be interesting to see what he thinks. It has a sound, but one that is difficult to pin down. It did not work well on my transport, flattening mid-range images for some reason, but worked well on everything else. I will order some more and therefore be able to get a better measure of its performance, and will try again with the transport (I have since learnt that I should not have used up-turned spikes). The Neuance is fast, it almost spotlights mid-range detail (you hear everything a vocalist is doing), it is very extended top and bottom. It might have a tad too much warmth in the lower mids and upper bass, but I am not sure yet. I love the way pianos sound with it - very much like the real thing (my daughter plays piano and so I hear it every day) - no exagerated presence, but all the natural harmonics of a real piano. I find it works best resting on small 1mm thick hard rubber pads, on a sand filled steel rack, with Vibrapods between shelf and component. I did not particularly like up-pointed spikes underneath it when I tried it but will experiment some more when I have some more Neuance shelves - it is hard to get the full measure of this shelf when I have only one. But I suspect this really is very close to an ideal shelf - very light, very rigid, no noticeable resonances - as I am using it at present. If, like me, you have been looking for a top quality shelf, then the Neuance is well worth a try. My only relationship to Neuance is that the man behind it offered me this ex-demo one for the cost of freight in response to my original post. When I order the next three shelves from him I will be offering to pay more generously for the first one.
redkiwi

Showing 6 responses by subaruguru

Greetings, Mark. I bought a Neuance shelf, but embarrassingly have not taken the time to A/B it yet. I simply "stored" it on TOP of my Rotel CDP (which sits on an air bladder for now), not thinking much about it. Subsequent listening sessions sounded mysteriously better than I had been used to, so I wonder if this lightweight, REALLY well-made device isn't somehow vetting steelcase energy off the top of the CDP, and thus cleaning up the top octaves a bit? Could be placebo, or that my Aleph 2s have finally broken in? I'll perform more-structured experiments after the holidays. I find your results remarkably perceptive already, Mark, but I'm not sure that multiplying the number of shelves you use will result in percetual differences that are linearly additive, given different types and constructions of components. Try not to make the experimental matrix TOO complex, bro! Happiest holidays to all. PS Heard the latest Patricia Barber?...or the Burns Sisters holiday CD?
Hi Mark! Finally am getting around to properly (?) assessing the Neuance shelf. Previous starting point was my lightly-modded Rotel 855CDP on a wheel-barrow innertube (which clearly cleaned up the top octaves a bit, without perceptible loss of PRAT). I first tried the Neuance under the CDP with
three down-turned cones, and although pace and clarity are extraordinary, I was still bothered by nastiness in the top octaves. Then I remembered that Ken (caterham) recommended (and provided for me) pointed setscrews to place up-pointed between the rack shelf and the Neuance. As I haven't gotten the electric drill out yet, I've attempted to simulate this
mounting by simply flipping my three cones to upward-facing.
(I had remembered all the negative feedback re upward-facing
cones, but reasoned that the Neuance would somehow act to "vet" energy from the rack into itself with this arrangement, and I think that was Ken's point.) Initial perceptions are that the sound is less lean; whether this is due to a real change in spectral tilt or simply a perceived one because the low treble seems cleaner is only conjecture. Is the bass fatter and looser?
...as claimed re up-facing points? I doubt it, but will continue assessing. Music used thus far included the new OPUS111 disc of Vivaldi's Gloria & Magnificat by an Italian troupe. Whereas the vocals were outstanding in both shelf orientations, repeated playings of the difficult string sections yielded a cleaner, less "digital", or distortion-laden sound with the cones upturned! I'm not sure if I perceive a slight loss of top octave air, however (could also be spectral tilt-related, and not "real").
.........Second disc was Respighi's Roman Festivals on Delos (DePriest).
Again, much more tolerable massed strings with up-facing cones; seemingly equal reproduction of the sustained organ pedal (seems about 32 Hz...low C on a 16' pipe...quite a good test/demo disc in that respect, as well).
I'm going to ask Ken to comment on the Neuance mounting options, and further explain his recommendation for the
rack-shelf-mounted steel spikes he likes for "floating" the Neuance, before I drill holes in my shelf.
For completion I know I should then compare the Neuance to the air bladder--and perhaps using BOTH together somehow, but my shelf height is limited, life is short, and my scientific background reminds me to alter only one variable at a time, and to compare only two iterations, especially if the discriminatory sensor is a placebo-sensitive human, eh?
......I'm also thinking about the CDP's total mass, damping, and consequent resonance spectra in light of these platform
tests, and wonder if you folks can short-circuit my evaluation of mass-loading its top-lid as a further variable? Currently I have simply stuck 50-60 in2 of asphalt damping sheets on the top, and have a dozen or so CDs usually stacked on top. Are bags of sand, or heavy books, a no-brainer I should immediately implement, or does mass-loading need to be done more carefully in an experimental manner? (Ken had cautioned me to NOT get INSIDE the CDP and dampen the hell out of everything, as I would probably dramatically revoice it!...hence the light damping on the top lid, and the initial Neuance experiments.)
I'm fascinated and gratified that these mechanical resonance/energy control actions seem to be able to favorably improve the treble performance of my admittedly
outdated CDP. I am about to receive an EVS Millenium II to evaluate, and hope to use the Rotel as a transport, so it'd be nice to have its "behavior" mechanically optimized. I was about to change the Red Dawn I use between the Rotel and the Aleph P, as it's SO revealing, so it would be gratifying if I could clean up the source enough to be able to retain use of such a quick, high-rez cable.
(Note that I was severely disappointed with the Bel Canto DAC when used in this setup, and even found the old Rotel, despite its rough treble, to have better PRAT than an ARCAM 9, and further have been told by several of Rotel's distributor's service techs that the transport used in the old, heavy 855 was FAR better than the current 951/971 series (and thus part of the reason they prefer the 855's sound!).
I'd be grateful if you could fill me in re your ongoing results and suggestions. Thanks, and sorry for rambling... Ernie
PS Heard Patty Larkin's latest? Too bad her vocal mike is so
bright...otherwise a wonderful groove!
Ken...thanks for the confirmation.
Mark...given space restrictions, would you recommend going to the trouble of fashioning a metal shelf to sit between my wooden shelf and Neuance? Phew! Think I'll first try Mark's hardened spikes screwed into my wooden shelf; this logically follows my temporary solution using upturned cones. Re a separate "sub" shelf: My mind's eye sees the Neuance as the predominant "sink" here; my wooden rack is VERY heavy, with divided-light leaded glass doors; its heavy 44" wide wooden shelf is of concern, but if anything, I would imagine REPLACING it with something rigid and light
(aluminum honeycomb?... dampened somehow...or a GIANT Neuance?!), rather than affixing MORE mass, however stiff, to it could be a way to go............I'll leave the minimal
CDP lid-damping in place, and let its stock feet dance for now. My take on your other comments is that I could then finalize the tuning by introducing these "EAR" footers and/or swapping out the Red Dawn IC as appropriate to give the lower mids more body, right? A local dealer wants me to try a Siltech IC for a fatter yet resolved signature.
If I recall correctly you like Coincident and Wireworld ICs, no? As much as I struggle with this I'm always wondering if I'm simply hearing the limits of my CDP or Redbook...
Thanks again...and you, too, Dekay. Ernie
PS You guys heard Didier Lockwood's Tribute to Stephane Grappeli (with Orsted-Pederson et al) yet? (SONY/FRANCE)
It's those violin's upper partials I'm trying to get right, for example....Cheers.
I interrupt my program of music-listening-inspired near-rapture to report that Neuance works! My hitherto-thought-to-be-overly-lean sound is now cleaner and harmonically cohesive; no more "clickiness" or rough-razored transients; improvement in "naturalness" (without "smoothing" or "warming" effects) is sufficient that I possibly may not chase less-open ICs! I suspect that elimination of high-freq resonance-induced distortion simply recalibrates ear-brain's assessment of spectral tilt.
Yes, the sound continues to be open and bright...but in most cases wonderfully so! I will return now to my extraordinary
programming...the remainder of Mahler No. 7. Good night!
Hmmm...still enjoying Neuance under my CDP, but am finding nirvana elusive. Whereas top end distortions seem mitigated, and PRAT is superb, I'm still bothered by leanness, especially noticeable on massed strings. I notice that when I pay attention I can successfully dismiss it, but find that it calls attention to itself more obviously when my sensoria are multiplexed (such as when reading). I originally attributed this stingy stringiness (say five times fast!) to the software, but then was disappointed by massed strings on Ref Rec's Respighi (Bravura) disc. Maybe I still need to chase a warmer IC for my CDP (still Red Dawn)?.........Ken mentioned a 2-3 day break-in requirement; sometimes I just want to go shake the damned thing into final-fractal-residual-resolution, and hope it fattens up a bit! So interesting that other instruments are timbrally more honest than before, however.
I'll try to get back to critical listening. Bought a few other recent Ref Recs: whereas the dynamics and horn choirs on the Copeland/Oue are stupendous, again the massed strings are pretty searing...anybody else notice this? Bonsoir.
Note that Neuance is REALLY light. Mark: I'm using a smaller
Mark IV mounted on 3 spikes tightly screwed through my shelf (per Ken's instructions). I tried cones under the CDP, but couldn't really hear an apparent difference compared to the Rotel's stock HARD feet. Interesting that I STRONGLY prefer
old Rotel 855 and Neuance to Bel Canto and DVD, eh?
.......PS Anyone got a favorite Mahler 8? I'm actually a bit disappointed in the remastered 24/96 Solti on Decca. If that's the best they can do I can't imagine how bad the original was! I hear there's a Chailly/Concertgebouw debuting in March that's impressive...oops!--sorry to fall off-thread.
Hi Dekay. No, I demoed the 'Canto before the Neuance. My disappointment with the DAC motivated me to improve my old CDP via isolation/coupling schemes. Isn't BC redesigning the DAC with a quieter power supply or something? I'm curious to see if you find the 'Canto "whitish" up top. Y'know, like a bright fog. The Rotel 991 seemed to mimic that coloration when its adjustable dither was maxed. I don't know how else to describe it. Maybe the Neuance will sort out its details more cleanly so that it doesn't sound lean and ill-focused up top. Good luck.