Find a room null. I usually put my table on a wall mounted shelf on one of the side walls. Then I put my phono stage and the rest of my equiment near it and run long ICs to the monobloc amps. It's nice because I have a preamp with no remote control, and placing all of my components near the listening chair is quite nice. I have found many dealers will discount long IC runs if you ask.
I have a suspended table, suspended floor, and sheetrock over wall stud walls. (aka like a lot of setups the united states). |
Thank you, Dan, I was beginning to question my sanity. Your point as to finding a null is also on the ball. |
John does offer a good, practical solution. If it were me I would find a practical location and then test it for low frequency response just to help eliminate airborne feedback. Normally you won't have to move more than a couple feet or so to get out of the peak and into a null, assuming it's not near a corner. The heavy mass on the shelf should do the rest. I would still keep the phono stage as close as possible to the TT. |
I see all these very complex and expensive solutions to your problem, and wonder why the simple solution of a shelf which doesn't flex isn't workable. It will not eliminate room interactions (which can only be mitigated at best), but it will solve your rumble problem without forcing you to the purchase of more expensive cables, assuming your shelf - not the frame but the shelf within it - is not already dense and inflexible (mass is the key in the case of non-suspended turntables). In order to test this theory, simply place a slab of something relatively inert and heavy on your shelf and see, a large kitchen cutting-board etc... If it works you've saved money and can simply site the shelf where it will work with the cables you have, if not, then you'll have to consider more expensive options. Precisely what type of 'table do you have? |
Thanks to all. I suppose I am left with only one question since I understand the notion of having to try things out as far as cables.
Does anyone have a recommendation for locating JUST the table? I do not even care that much about CD but I would like to put the table where it would be best and then adjust to suit it. I have a wall mount (solid) and a non-suspended table. |
In many respects, the equipment and how it interacts electrically and vibration wise (due to room construction) will determine where the "best" spot is in any given situation.
Are the floors solid or suspended?
Are the walls solid brick or somesuch or wood and plaster?
How well can your electronics drive cables - the various components? If not well, you may need "expensive" interconnects.
Is the table suspended or not?
Got subs? speaks that go low?
and so on ....
The only real way is to try things out as every room/system interaction is different.
good luck and have fun!
regards,
Stephen |
Dan, I am particularly obliged to you for your response as it gives me some insight on alternate table setup locations and IC advise. I'm not sure that I will ever be able to afford 6m IC's, at least not of the quailty I have in my 1m pairs.
I am surprised there is not more experiences posted here. Maybe it is a dumb question or maybe I am asking it incorrectly. Or maybe most people just go with the between and behind spot and say to hell with it. |
I have recently gone through the same decisions you are facing. My choice was to implement a solution along the lines of what Uppermidfi has mentioned. I started with all of my components behind and between the speakers, using no ICs longer than 1 meter and speaker cables of 10'. This setup definitely contributed to feedback into the table.
Next I strung out the ICs between the TT, phono stage, pre and amp so that I only had the pre and amp between the speakers. The TT and phono stage where on a heavy rack outside of and slightly behind one speaker. I checked this location with the RS sp meter and there was a null there in the lower frequencies. The feedback situation was better but I was getting a hum in my BAT pre that I could minimize by turning my amp 90 degrees to it and moving it to the limit of the 1m IC between them. So I new I could do better.
I have taken the pocket book hit and purchased a set of 6m Nordost SPM ICs, (got 'em used here on the 'gon). Now I can set the entire front end across the room from the amp. No more hum. My digital components are on a rack with my pre and I have moved my TT to a seperate, light weight table with an extra piece of melomine under the TT. The low frequency feedback is nearly gone and the new table has brought the punch back to the bass. A kick drum now has a snap, not just a thud, and the image is much wider and more 3D. I am still experimenting with exactly where to place the front end pieces. Right now they are on a side wall about even with my listening position but not in the first reflection from that wall.
I would suggest keeping your IC from the table to the phono as short as practical to keep the capacitance down. It is also much easier, signal wise, to run a longer IC from the phono stage to the pre as the signal has been amplified and is less susceptible to noise. |
There is one easy fix for wall mounts, assuming you can mount the wall-mount close to your equipment. I used to own a Rega Planar 3 which I sited on a wall-mount with the same problem you have now. What was happening was that the shelf that came with the wall-mount was vibrating - not the 'table - when the music was loud enough, and causing the rumble from my turntable. So I went to an acrylic shop and had a shelf made from a slab of acrylic, which I glued to the shelf with two-way tape. End of problem. Of course, all the other options of moving your table around would also work. A slab of marble also worked in the same situation, and at one point I had a three-layer sandwich of acrylic, marble, and the original shelf. But with each layer, the music improved. Cheap, and no longer cables needed. |
Uppermidfi, I did consider that possibility but it would entail, in that case, a long run of IC between the preamp and amp. Is this more advisable than other schemes I've mentioned? Maybe this whole thing is just a question of whether it is better to have longer IC's or longer speaker cables and, if the answer is IC's, which IC to make longer(if that makes any sense).
I would also like to know if anyone has good experience with the turntable placed in a specific room loaction relative to the speakers. |
Have you considered putting the amp between the speakers and having the whole front end out near where the listening chair is located? That seems to be one of the more popular means of setting things up since it keeps the amp from messing with the other electronics. |
