SET Shootout China VS The USA

One thing I've learned in audio is there's always something better ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ WEll sure I mean if we bring Kronzilla and Wavac into the discussion, Jadis has to take a distant 2nd place. There are other UK designers also employing the 833 and other super massive exotic SET type tubes. But in its price category, Jadis reigns pretty high up there in craftmanship. This is my point, Jadis eraned and well deserves its reputation. Is my point. I did go a bit hyperbole when i said **THE most** when in fact truth is, **among the most mucical in that price group..*

Someone text me say his UX250 SET has no issues driving his vinatge Realistic Nova 7’s and Grafyx SP10’s, both double stacked,, thats SIX WATTS...so just **what** do I know...

ahhh you know what, Here is where his Colbalt out trans kick in with a bit of slam power,,, vs the Yaqin’s Z11 weaker trans. So it is possible he is having some **success* driving LOW EFFICIENT xover types with a SET, Cobalt trans.

 

Few of us have cobalt trans in our low powered amps.

So that caveat aside.

basically this topic OP has been altered.

Its not about a chinese designed amp vs a USA amp design.

The new OP Q is

KT series tubes PP

vs

Low SET type tubes PP (300B,2A3)

 

For all low sensivity speakers/xover types, KT series , EL34,88,120,150 are the ideal tube for giving dynamics to a highly INefficient speaker.

These speakers demand power, Which the KT has to offer.

 

In high end HIGHLY efficient speakers such as FR. lower powereed tubes such as the 2A3 is the superior choice. Lets say **marriage made in heaven*.

So I will not commit to say the lowered powered tubes, are superior in soundstage/musical sound field..only that witha FR the best and ideal choice is NOT the KT series.

I’m closing out this year with 2 major discoveries in my experiemental journey ~~~search for high fidelity.

 Discovery  of FR as my dream speakers, DUALs at that.

and this Yaquin 2A3 which i had no idea what it was all about,, how it would perform.

It was intended as a low watt SET for light chamber/solo piano. Sort of backup amp.

Now the Defy has taken a distant 2nd place.

Yaqin wears the crown jewels.

2A3 does things a  KT series tube can't do.

 

You are discovering the world of DHT tubes.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

**another world**. Bigger.

 

Another universe. As you were typing this message,,

I was on the Inet searching these *DHT** tube designs. I’ve heard amazing things about the **45**, and other DHT tube circuits Just unreal. WOW factor off tjhe charts. Look its high time we get off discussing KT series tubes. Audiogon past 20 yrs has been ALL about KT series tube designs. I;’m sick and tired of of the old standard fare, like stale bread./

Yes a KT is a nice sounding tube. But it ain’t nothing special such as these DHT’s deliver. 2 **completely** (hyperbole necessary) different soundstages. You guys know how far I’ve gone in hypeing FR speakers as not only the best choice, but,,,well I refuse to finish the sentence... Again here with the **DHT** Universe discovery,, the sound fields lifts you off the earth into a new unknown (KT exp well known /explored) planteary system.

For months I was perplexed as to what amp design will open up the magic of a FR system..

I searched all and evey KT offer. Close to addinga 2nd KT series, like a EL34 low watt amp,,, By sheer luck (man do I need a break on luck in my choices lately)) I hit on this 2A3 PP rare gem. So as we close out the year, i am going to add to my prognostication (big word I know, but have a bit of that old spirit with me,, a bit I said, not to the degree of the old masters). FR as speaker choice, 1st system, wearing crown jewel And these DHT SET/PP as the preminent place among audiophiles choice in amplification power. Its comming, I can see it, but its still some years off. Sterophile, 6 Moons still pumps out massive does of propaganda fopr the big KT power tube designs and the speakers that go with these sheer power blocks, the low sens/low efficient blood(fidelity) sucking xover type speakers. Neither of which is going away anytime soon as 1st picks.

 

~~~But a time is comming~~~

KT amps will be offered at *dime a dozen* prices on used retail sites. Rock bottom. Whereas you’ll be lucky to find a good deal ona used SET/DHT type amp. = Minisclue discount. maybe 10% off list. vs PP amps, now nearly 30%++ off list. jadis DPL Linestage, with takman, Mundorf and Teles, Jadis Defy, Takman, Mundorfs, Teles,,, I gave jadis all the best,,But its no match fora DHT PP 2A3 design.

The future is

~~~FR + DHT~~~

 

and here ya go

WOW factor off the chart.

These designs are blast off rocket ships to a   magical musical universe.

Your music will never be the same. 

Will never have sounded this good.

You will RE discover your favorite music. 

As in,,**WOW I never knew this singer/ band had such talents..**

http://www.triodelab.com/45-triode

 

 

@jond 

 

Yes my tech speakers often of this **45** tube.

Looking at a  pic,  tube looks super.

have a  feeling its the one Im after, Yes very low watt as  mentioned in Triode's web site and mentioned *speaker choice is critical..** Mentioned something like 100 db sens speakers..

Mine are dual FR + dual T's. 

tweets 91db and FR 95 and 93.

with the ohm load, might have to stay with DHT PP circuit, for a  booost in power/dynamices

Actually listening to a single tube SET UX50, , now this PP2A3, I prefer a  PP DHT design.

I love the dyanmics of this dual tube circuit.

Not sure when the Defy will IF ever get tubes,,,,, man, the wrong roads we travel down....costly....never  taken much interest in DHT's due to alotttt of , half baked , misleading nfo I read here on audiogon decades ago concerning SET amplifaction. Another reason i never took a  interest in DHT's is  lack of exp with a  FR speaker.

All this is completely new to me.

Seems I am saving the very best amplifier for,,,last. 

Like a  good old rare Bordeux. 

chips + the Class A JFET opamps, loaded with tiny cjips. All make for highly sensitivite DAC setup to moisture. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This may have contributed to the pops while cd plays,, but then I played same jazz cds with ceiling LED with dimmer OFF, and pops completely disappeared. DAC did not like 100% humidity + cool temps + static energy in air/cold front energy + LED ceiling with dimmer. No pops and just was able to upload another video.

Put another way, this isn’t about KT vs 2A3; IME its about design ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

man I want one of THOSE amps the EL95 you describe. wow. Sounds just like my perfect cup of tea. I am about to upload a video after I post here. In the video, I make the claim the KT88 does not render the music such as I am hearing via the 2A3. Although both techs here threw tomatoes at Jadis Defy design,, neither can pin point exactly whats wrong,,excep there are ONLY 4 bias pots for TWELVE!!!! tubes, Jadis cheated on that mess up. This amp needs 12 bias pots accessible from top panel. Come on Mr Jadis,,just wwhat were you thinking,,,ohh yeah French asethetics, beauty,,GOT it, Give me 12 bias pots top panel please, I;’ll ship it back, you pay ship both ways to france.. Design?

 

Every KT amp I’ve heard, about 5 , EL34,88,120 all sounded about the same. To me it comes down to 88 vs 2A3. The sonics are in the tube, much less the design. Although I will say i prefer AU along with AX in front end as superior pre section , this way I can get Teles in the sound. Got to have Teles in pre. My tech’s UX50 has 12AU7 and some other taller pre tube,,which I am thinking is the reason i prefer this Yaqin over his UX25. Teles are simply magical. I’m not saying design has no influence, just saying it really boils down to power tube vs power tube.

I could not tell much dif twix a EL34, 88 and 120. Whereas DHT’s have a **signature** character. This is what i am trying to say.

Not saying all DHT’s sound same, just all have a  signature midrange  linear magic.

But I’d bet the KT170 Jadis sounds not much dif from their EL34 designs. Speaking of only midrange, not bass, not highs.

vs the liquid, magical mids of DHT’s.

Every cd I’ve tested sounds like new music vs the KT88’s **signature sound*. Again not that all KT88’s sound the same. I did not like the ever popular Gold lions, Svets were better,,hoping the EH’s beat out the Svets so I can decide either to keep the KT88 amp or sell it (= dump it) Can the reputation of Electro Harmonix 88 save this amplifer?? But why listen to a midfi amplifier when I can listen to hifi amplifier???? Makes no sense. KT88 mid vs 2A3 high.

The opinions expressed in this video I take full responsibility  and in no way  wish to disregard the KT88 tube in a  design.

Its a  wonderful sounding tube   (tongueincheek),, but at the end of the d,,listening session, there can only be one sharp shooter left standing ,,as you know,, only 1 gets The Cigar.

.Midrange,,although I will say this lil 7 watter has soem kick in bass. Highs super. 

IMHO the KT series tubes, EL34,88,120,150, 170 is midfi after you hear a  Direct Heated Triode.

 

 

OK Miles Davis with the Yaquin 2A3 + DavidLouis duos

vs

this Jadis JA30's w KT150's  + Sonus faber Guarneri

 

Now you tell me which you prefer, have same track as in my upload

 

I’ll take Sonus Faber for $500 Alex!

 

 

~~~~~~~

I think that SF model goes for like $2500 vs my FR duo @ under $1. I’ll take my FR/Duo’s all you get with the SF is a 6 inch mid and a tweeter, Neither has the fiber to voice the super duper critical 2khz-3khz band width. Breakup in both drivers in this extremely important fq zone.

I have three single end tube amps. A 2A3, a 45 and a 6BG6. The 2A3 is a Sanei 260A made-in-Japan. It uses all Tango iron, including a Tango choke! Plus a front panel volume pot and a headphone jack! It was an eBay auction win for me one December! The Japanese seller gave me free shipping too! The 45 SET was a custom build by Will Vincent in Idaho. He built it on a Dynaco ST70 chassis using Emcron output transformers, two 6C6 pentode input tubes and a 5V4 rectifier. Beautiful white powder coat on the chassis. I paid $1600 + shipping. With only 1.75 wpc I don’t have any speakers to use with it after selling my Heresy’s

 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ WOW you really have some gorgeous sounding amplification. Down the road I may be interested in the 45, would be fantastic with my FR.

OK so we know the KT88 tube in a 12 tube amp, ain;t working for me vs the incredible sound froma 2A3 PP

 

,,,so what do we do in this case???

1st wish to say

glad these 88’s are not new,, i’d be stuck with them...they have 4k hours,,,so what we do is to consider what other tube this picky Defy will accept... that MIGHT just be a game changer,,,and after thinking,,,thinking, pondering,,I found the answer.

Not going to tell you which tube.

Only going to say, specs look close, but IMHO the 88 has a bigger mid voice.

And with dual FR, I don’t want/need/wish for a midrange that **blooms** as is so often said about the 88.

The mystery tube I’m guessing has a tiny bit less pronounced midrange X’s 12 88's   = now we have a massive alge bloom midrange , polluting the waters.

So if the mystery tube, a tube that has completely totally been thrown under the bus, then steamed roll over (= its all about 88,88,88,,,88,88 = Popular Vote, = which goes against my modus operandi),

 

Hint

the plant was bombed, russians picked it up and made the tube superior.

This is the tube that might very well save the Jadis from being nothing more than a museum piece.

 

2A3 PP low watt amp

vs

100 (real/true) watt amp + Mystery tube

shootout.

There’s still hope for Jadis

Yeah I know Jadis lovess the Svet Kt88, only due to popular demand.

 

Stay tuned.

 

 

Genalex Gold Lion KT77

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

This tube more than likely will not work in the Defy as pe my tech’s opinion. He did grant approval on the mystery tube as acceptable in the Defy’s circuit. Bombed plant is dead giveaway

 

btw if someone says **mystery tube has even more midrange vs the 88...** I’ll dismiss.

The 88 is well known as **bloomy** midrange.

Which again, xover type speakers need the 88  to ENRICH that 1800hz-3500hz region.

FR , especially dual concoction/scheme,,has already too much,,well actually with the right tube ina PP, just perfectly rich enough.

a single FR would (might) bore me to death.

current version of the 2-way Sonus Faber Guaneri is $18,000 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ EMoji of complete shock.. A few months back there was a older version of the Guarneri on ebay,, bidded over 2500,,, could not believe it,.,,,now you say,, 18G's. huh? 2 way 6 inch Scan speak made especially for the Guarneri with a incredible Neo Dymium magnet motor,,and a high end tweeter,, is this the 2 way you are refering to...?? 18GGGGsss. Emoji of disbelief.

Now the shootout is

France vs China

Defy7 with highest end Mundorf, F&T's,  Philips, aero space silvercopper internal main cabels, 4 @ 8 gague.

Takman Rey resistors.

Vs 

Stock China 2A3 PP .

I do not wish for this Defy to  be a  closet piece, collecting dust.

The 88's are just a  pinch too thick in midrange.

I need something that is more evenly distributed. 

And that tube is none other than,,,,the mystery tube.

Will the Jadis come up to the Yaqin's magic?? 

Lets say this, if the record has something that requires depth, dynamics, complex passages, demanding,, the 2A3 just might not match what the Defy delivers in this more strigent, demanding power requirements. Such as Ravel's Daphne and Chole. 

This  Q can not be answered til I find the cash for the 12 mystery tubes + Richard will install new bias pots, .

Stay tuned,,, maybe late April (not mid summer as previously stated).

 

 

 

Why bother with the Defy 7? Get a pair of nicely restored Heath W5's. Peerless iron. Add a quad set of Gold Lion KT66's and four vintage 12AU7's for the input/driver stages. 28 PP watts per mono amp. Sonically way better than any Chinese amp! I have a pair. Sell that Defy 7! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Man o man, dont you just sound like both techs here in the area,,**you really ought to dump the Defy*** why all the hate for the Defy.. show some love.. Richard speaks very highly of the ~~legendary, famous~~ Heath Kits. KT66's. ,,, not much attention on these rarely employed tubes. My gress is like EL34's in tones..?? WEll I have too much cash invested in ~~upgrades~~ in the Defy,, wife will not let me sell it,. Has corrosion on some tiny points top chassis, (New Orleans 100% humidity and stuck ina closet for 10 years,,have 5 cats, but its not from the cats pp). + added mods, NOT STOCK, one just sold ebay $2500 top big $200 ship. I have over 1500 in upgrades alone. I'm betting all my chips the new mystery tube is going to deliver the CORRECT sound stage for this amplifier. fact of the matter is, I followed the crowd going KT88's. Great tube for a 4 tubed amp. And a absolute necessity for all you audiophiles with CONVENTIONAL xoverlowsens LOUD`speakers.. For a single FR, the 88 will only work ina 4 tube amp. When we get up to Defy's 12,, the tiny big added midarnge X 12, makes the mids ~~bloated~~. The mystery tube I am speaking of has a tiny bit more recessed mid vs the 88. I'm guessing the Defy will arise like the Phoenix from the fires, into a new beautiful soundstage. When cash become avaliable I will tube the Defy with the mystery tube and upload about 10 YT videos. If its not a success, I will not upload any videos. I'm guessing my modded Defy vs stock Jadis, with mystery tube, which jadis DOES not rarely employ as per clients request,,, will elevate this Defy beyond all Jadis' amp,ifiers when a 88 is in the socket. Dual FR + 12 88's = bloated midrange = yucky. Still think about it. China 2A3 $1500 vs Defy+ DPL = over $10G's. 2A3 in most classical gets the Cigar. RFavel's Daphne awaits the test. Which one can handle the massive swings load of fq's, wins the cigar. The 2A3 might show some distortion at say 65SPL, vs the Defy/Mystery tube might show distortion at say 85++ SPL. I listen at 65/70SPL.

Regarding speakers: a pair or two of Quad 57’s plus a pair of Heath W5’s is audio nirvana! That’s what I use!

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Quad57’s, Legendary, Richard mentions Q57’s are the Gold standard by which all xover speakers are measured.(yeah I am putting words in his mouth,, but thats pretty much how he talks about this Legend))

Now will they hold up against my Dual FR’s???/

Let me go to YT now on the Q57’s.... see what I hear....

 

Remembera  Legend ary speaker is only as good til a  new kid on the block comes along.

Do the 57's have a  sweet spot,, = beaming??

If yes, grate my nerves. = reject. 

Do the Q57's require some special power amp/db sens??

If yes, not for me.

Joao Gilbert at 3 minutes

Sorry not my cup of tea.

a bit tioo much resonances, like all paper mid woofers have same identical coloration. 

Bass is UNREAL...

You will not know just how colored the Q57 is until I bring in my Dual FR.

 

Thuis is the way this game works, One speaker smacks down another.

Last speaker standing wins.

My Duo has no competition(exception high end horns, which all speakers fail against) in certain regards. 

 

 

 

I like vintage iron too. This is when steel was cheap. Now with high industrialization past 20 yrs has placed critical demands on steel so prices have sky rocketed. Which is why the trans in the Yaqin are no doubt small, at $1300, ,,my tech tapped on the 3 covers,, sounded hollow inside. WEll, no big deal, at $1300 , sounds great, I'm happy. Better trans gives nunace superior bass. Again dual FR pad up the bass 60hz region. Can't complain on certain tracks, I get all the bass i want/wish for.

Look when China techs can put out a  2A3 PP and now I see a  300B PP just out, which most likely i will order as well, as it has a  Pre Out for my Jadis DPL,, might sell the 2A3,,, but look when techs can put out a  SET amp like in this vid below,, there is no way the old KT designs can compete.

I have no idea what this amp lists at, bet its over $15 grand.

Jadis KT170 vs this SET? 

Both at $16 grand

No brainer.

 

Im havinga   hard time trying to figure Ken's amps out, 307 tube,,what is it??

so i googled 307 , yes avaliable for purchase.

WOW this SET world is  a  nother universe.

 

But I do thinik I found the **mother load**

unreal, just unreal.

Yep going to list,,,,,,no,,,no  can;'t sell my Defy,, but certainly  should,... as I don;'t need 3 ,  amplifiers, 

 

 

just revisited the KU 307 video,, love at 1st hearing

Its something I can't even comprehend, the fidelity,, its like its not even real. 

Like a  dream or even a  fantasy.

By sheerrrr luck I hit on KU's page,,I've seen his YT months ago ona   used amp he was selling...but I was very interested ina  brand new chinese 300B PP amp with PRE IN,,and  very confident I would add a  3rd amp,,, so I can use my Jadis DPL with Mundorf caps,,,but hit on this KU 307, 

What I really should do, is list my Defy with $1600 mods (never recoop, all lost), and sell the Yaqin 2A3.

What pain and suffering.....

 

well my dream  of owning this amp via my selling the Defy, , I just canceled the Defy 7 ad , all for 3 hours,, had 50 hits,,, ad canceled, after i RE-visited the KU 307,, I did not let vid finsih BEFORE,, so i just went back and Beethoven was playing,,, hummm, SET's are #1 for jazz, blues, light chamber,,, sym orch,, forget it. 

DHT PP will respond to full orch, but NOT their lil brother the Single DHT. 

Defy ad canceled.

Going with a  3rd amp the 300B PP, contary to my techs advice to stay away from anything *300B*.

 

because your tech can fix something or tell you how it works doesnt mean he has earned the right to hear for you too ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Well although he is a savant in all things electronics/amps/TV’s etc, does not mean his opinions are not *un-biased*, Pun intended. At times he is spot on but can lean a bit to his strong opinions. You know a better OP title could have been KT Series circuits (includes the EL’s) vs Single Ended Triode ///DHT single tube vs DHT PP AS of a few weeks ago, i had no idea DHT PP circuit even existed, to my surprise and de-light. In my very limited exp of these 3 designs, I tend to favor DHT/PP as 1st choice. What we see offered on the market by heaps and gobs are the KT PP series. (KT in a SET design is rarely offered and not of my concern) KT88’s are by far the most offered, most popular, most purchased. Now why is this? Answer:: Speakers. Low sens/xover types require a KT PP circuit that delivers some solid 30++ watts of power.

The USA audiophiles are  so devoted if not  blind eyed, about their xover type speakers, including ZU’s, Tannoys, and such, 

they cant see the forest for the trees,

Whereas the asian, especially the china audiophile almost to the last man, chooses high efficient/higher sens FR type speakers, Thus SET ’s are no doubt purchased more frequently. As I see (hear ) it, seems to me the asian SET/DHT/ with Full range speakers are more advanced in acheiving higher fidelity vs the USA audiophile determined to stay firmly and may i say, stubbornly, planted with both feet , and may I say, rock solid cemented in his stance, to hold on to his dear life , the big PP power amplifiers and the partnered speakers that pairs well with his KT amp, the xover.low sens (aka low efficient read IN-Efficient read IN-effective in midrange) speakers.

So Be IT. each his own I guess. .

I’ll follow the asians on the path to high-er fidelity.

bottom end is quite authoritative for a SET. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ In the KU307 YT video,, I was wondering if Ken had a ~~~sub woofer~~~ attached to the amplifier,, that deep and powerful. One super DHT tube for sure, Lucky you. Now in a shootout with the highly regarded 45 tube..., 2 super high fidelity tubes in a shootout,,, neither wins,,,correction,,,neither loses, they both win,,,, even draw,,lol

Once transistor power became common in the 1960s (More power than tubes for far less money). Tube components were viewed as archaic and useless. It was Jean Hiraga who brought the low power SET/High efficiency speakers movement from Japan to Western society in the 1970s. The rest as they say is history. Dennis Had (Founder of Cary Audio) was an early American SET manufacturer. Don Garber (Fi Audio) was another early American convert who built SET amplifiers.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hey Charles Thanks for this facinating history of how SETs became part of this hobby. Now I know why the ~~Legendary~~~~ Coral Beta 8 speaker had its birth place in Japan. WE , ESPECIALLY ME of all FR fans in the world,,,, owe our fine high fidelity speakers to this savant in Japan who developed the CB8, Yes I know the original genius was in Berlin, Chicago 1920;s, then we owe alot to Jensen and EV others,, But it is the CB8 where the technology found a new voice in purity, fidelity. I realize the davidLouis VX8, VX6 are direct heirs to this masterful speaker. The Yaqin MS2A3 DHT PP is NOT, NOT new, its been around for perhaps a decade,, as per some comments i see on the Inet. A real hidden gem among a massive pile of KT PP amplifiers. I am not holding my breath on a massive movement away from KT series amplifiers into SET/DHTPP amplifiers , not anytime soon. Most folks are leary about FR speakers, not to mention they can be ,,no in fact are very pricey, Single drivers $5K-$10K a pair, and w cabinets,,, one needs to be close to a millionaire to afford a pair. I remember the days back in early 2000’s the SETs were mentioned ona topic here, speaker shootout, Back then the SETs were pricey, and few offered. Now with chinese tech, machine made, we can all now have access to these highly musical amplifiers. KT series amplifiers hold on interest for me any longer.

 

There are nuances in the DHT tubes which are missing in the voice of the KT series tubes, 34,88,120, 150, 170. Its just not there,,,nice,,but as they say, no cigar. Folks can argue all they want,, **design, trans quality, etc etc** fact of this matter,~~ truth~~ of this shootout,

is the DHT have some magic that KT series are not privy to.

 

If its not there, ITS NOT THERE,,

why lie about it, why pretend otherwise???

The End of The Story

Lights out.

@jond 

 

well what we are all finding out is that there are such amplifiers as 

 

~~~DHT PUsh Pull~~~

Ner heard such a  design.

All I knew about is SETSETSET.

A SET on a  xover type speaker does not work, I tried it, its  a complete failure. Either high end horn or FR (or Concentric if that floats your boat, Tannoy.

My next experiement is to find out if the KT88 ,,,lets say, how dif in  nuances /midrange is the voicing on a  KT88 vs  a  KT90.

This is my next experiement.

I'm holding out hope for my PP amp.

What can a  KT90 offer paired up witha    dual FR.

The 88's were just a  bit too midrange heavy to work with dual FR.

Its like midrange X's 3.

From what I remember of the EI90's in the JOR, there was magic in the soundstage.

= more recessed midrange.

I think everyine goes for the 88's as their xover/low sens speakers needs all the  voice they can get in midrange.

 

This is why they choose 88's. 

The 90 has been completely totally thrown under the  bus.

Google kt90 on audiogon,,, haha, maybe 5 posts on that tube past 10 years. vs 88's, 100's of posts. 

Its all which 88  is best.

Audiokarma, DIY, all sites, 888888888888.

If I can sell my cayin  cd17 I can get the 90 tubes,,,no bites 3 days,,,,,, priced rock bottom  w mundorfs.

 

 

I have no experience with the KT series other than the KT77 which I think is a great tube. But you are doing it again you’re not listening to tubes you’re listening to tube amps. So whatever tube it is you do listen to next make sure it’s in a good amp. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

1) Tube amp design/Circuit

2) what are the pre tubes

3) quality trans 4) power tubes choice/brand (I found Gold Lion a bit dull, confirmed by a member on Audiokhrama)

What I am suggesting is that all power tubes sound awefully close , tiny nunance differences. But a miniscule is all I need LESS IN MIDRANGE with the 90’s vs the tiny bit more full richer mids of a 88. Pre tubes have the most impact, and what brand, I found none beat out Tele , my fav pre tubes are AX, AU, but honestly thats not based on exp, as i’ve not heard a 6SN7 series type pre tubes. I have no idea how they perform. Trans quality allows a superior **cleaner/tighter* bass. Also swaping caps and resistors have allowed some gains, minisclue but worth it. I have 12 Mundorf SESGO .47’s in the Defy @ $50 each + tech fees. Bass has more punch. On swapping caps, it realy only makes a dif if you go highest quality, Supreme EVO SGO. EVO give less impact. All these things go to make a amp’s ultimate performance. Ck out Ken Usegui’s designs. top quality, IMHO Ken is making the best SET’s for the money, 2nd to none. 2nd to none in his price range, Sure we can’t include Kronzilla and Wavac, thats a wholeeee nother price range. But what Ken is doing, 2nd to none. Thing is, he only offers pure SET,,, my thing is DHT in PP design. I need the nuances in dynamics with a DHT/PP vs the super pure linearity of a SET. Suductive, but at the end of the day, I miss the added dynamics of a DHT/PP sound. + a SET will not deliver the power I need for full sym orch,, vs the superior performance with DHT/PP in more complex music.

But as for EL34, KT77, KT88, KT120, Our local tech has run experiements with audiophiles, **guess which tube is in the amp NOW..** and usually its only a lucky guess.

What makes all the dif in allowing nuances of each tube to come through is,,THe Sensitivity of the speaker.

Upgrades were hardly noticed in the Thors at 87db sens. With my Dual FR, any tube swap, I can note the tonal changes. Your xover type speakers are not sensitive enough to allow upgardes to be heard in all their impact. = Big waste of money high end cabels, IC,s Caps, etc, with low sens speakers. A complete waste of cash. Only FR allow the most impact of mods/upgrades to filter through. This is a fact, based on very costly experiences. I’m still in debt with these Thor upgrades. The only thing left now with the Thors are the xovers for the W18’s. Got them sitting on my shelf collecting dust. I really despise all/every xover/low sens speakers, did I not say

HATE.

Loathe,

can’t stand.

You know what would be a  great new lil topic,, ~~~Post your best pics/videos of some of the coolest looking SET amps you can find on the Inet.

Pics, YT vids, whatever.

Here's one I just found by sheer luck,, ...these  2 tubes have me ~~mezmerized, hypnotized,, spell bound~~~ I've seen the vid already 2x's and can't stop. 

I wish the guy had shut the lights off,, wow factor would have been through the roof. 

And the speakers,, nothing special at all, and sounds just super realistic.

Where's the ADD To CART/BUY NOW button,,haha.

Now everyone post their top pic of **unusual* ( = out this world)  SET tubes amps they can find on the Inet

Pics are ok too, does not have to be a  video

Now go find yours

 

 

wouldnt you just know it,

old HiFi Guy comes through to deliver the **Magma Tube* GM100 SET

 

Wondering after a  few hr session, what kind of heat factor are we talking about?? 

 

 

What,,,the,,,,hoot....

huh.....????

wow, unreally unreal

 

 

 

Big Philips tube at full 1000 watts power. 

 

 

811 incredible deep voice. Guess its kin to the 845,,now I know what folks are talking about these 8 series tubes.

WOW thats velvery and powerful bass.

Liquid bass.

Unreal.

 

 

ower power SET amplifiers are more intimate, nuanced, tactile and pure in their presentation. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ huummmm I know you mentioned this trade off somewhere else, maybe on this topic.. hummm, looking at adding a 2nd SET or a DHT PP Both lower end amps, under $1600 300B/PP has Pre IN so I can use the Jadis DPL the other 845 w 2A3 as drivers/pure amp w a cd jack/amp has vol knob. Everyone says they love their 845, ,,, but as you say might have to give up up some nuances offered in the #00BPP..... can't ask Richard for advice, he's not going to give thumbs up on either....another amp buy, behind his back. I'm probably going 845 as i already have the 2A3 PP.

Must say this thread reafirms my amazement at how one can so easily become profoundly adamant about their position on a subject that is so subjective in nature. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

 

WEll as far as Chineswe 2A3’s vs NOS RCA ’s. For the record AT LEAST TO MY EARS, The stock $30 chepo Psvane’s wopped the **LEGENDAY* RCA NOS double plate 2A3’s. But you can read and believe what you wish. IMHO the new prod chinese 2A3’s and most likely 300B’s are far superior in NOS RCA’s(= over rated). Just thought I’d set the record straight. Who wants smudgy midrange? The Q we need to answer is rating the 2A3 C vs Z vs T vs E Lin Lai versions. btw I think Shu black glass T series = LL black glass T series, same exact tube. Shu is making tubes for both Psvane and LL. Same as in russia, New Sensor makes tubes for Tung Sol, EH, Gold Lion, etc. However they are not the exact same tube. Gold Lions do not sound like Svets and EH’s. Each 88 from russia sound different. But in chinese tubes, the differences are more miniscule. Psvane ACME 2A3 at $1k a pair will sound almost exact as LL’s E series 2A3 for $500 a pair. AS both are made in Shu’s plant. Same materials. BUt in russia the nuances are more significant between each brand. Same plant, but wider range of details in the design.

I believe that Shuguang and Psvane are two seperate entities with their own seperate manufacturing facilities. Psvane initially derived from Shuguang but is today independent ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Not buying

 

Both big manufacturers New Senson and Shugaung pretty much own the tube industry.

HOWEVER,, take Prima Luna and cayin, both made in Spark plant. Build are both well design, but they are both different. I prefer Cayin. Same in tubes, Gold Lion and EH are both made in New Sensor’s plants. But there is a difference in sound, I found the popular GL’s a bit dull, as did someone on audiokharma. IMHO the Elecrto Harmonix designs are best tubes out of russia. In china, Psvane, LinLasi, Shugauang are all 3 equal, Its what you can afford.

Take Psvane’s ACME 2A3, sure if sounds a nuance superior to LinLai’s E series,

But at a COST, 2x’s the price,

Does my classical music deserve, justify paying 2x’s the price for a tiny nunace more in sonics??

? No it does not,

If I listened only to jazz/blues, yes the ACME’s nuances will come through much cleaner.

. But again its what you can afford.

 

One issue i have with Psvane is their lack of product info.

 B, C, Z , T , E , ACME,

, LinLai does offer some product info on their TI D Dream series, TI coating, and their E series, which is some Nickle plates, carbonized.

Psvane offers nada, Just dif pricing. For this reason I prefer LinLai over Psvane. IMHO LinLai will over take Psvane and put Psvane OOB. btw Psvane’s 12AX7’s that come in that nice boxs, are worthless trash at $75 a pair, China can not make a good sounding AX.AU tube,

They shine in the 6SN7 new high end offering,,but ya gonna pay.

Here is why LL will put OOB Psvane. LinLai lower prices, same quality

 

 

someone won a pair of RCA 300B's at $650

when they could have bought LinLai/Psvane's top end tubes.

ohh well. Amazing how legends live on and on ,,,and on.....

Richard says ,, **allow the 80 yr RCA's to warm up, ,,they will come around..**

Not

 10 minutes was quite enough

The $30 Psvane's were a  clean, clear winner. 

assuming one’s system sufficiently resolving ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Someone etch this in stone./ The other day I swqaped out the jadis JS2 DAC for the wonderful wounding Shanling 300 cd player (which i use as a disc drive for the Jadis)), and man, as good as the Shanling sounds, theJadis DAC with Teles/Mundorf caps, JFET class A opamps, was superior.

That aside, if one has smudgy, colored speakers,, it makes no sense whatsoever to invest in high priced 2A3 tubes.

Compltete waste of money.

My speakers are higher sens,  and clearly register any tube roll.

. As you say, Shugang has liscened out its facilities to Psvane and Lin Lai to make their tubes INSIDE Shugaung’s manufacturing tool shop. I prefer LinLai as they actually give a few words why they want $250/pair for the D series and why they want $500 for the E series. I will probably go the extra cost and get the E, as they will out last the Ti coated Dream *D* series, stronger plates = longer life + less chance at a failure. + tiny nuance superior sonics. . My tech completely disagrees/dismisses this theorum, as **baloney**

Charles..believe you are correct..I have the Psvane ACME 845s ...2 in each SET and WE 300B ..1 each in the SETs as the driver tubes.both are amazing tubes..would not trade my SETs for any other amps.. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

I believe it was Stereophile or some other online review that madea shootout of LinLai top 845 vs Psvane ACME, even draw. Priced same.

And yes SET folks never ever go back and purcahse a KT series amp. If we add a 3rd amp it will be another SET type.

Although we all have a KT amp in our collection, our crown jewel is the DHT's.

. Runner up is our KT series amp, WE still need the KT’s for big orchestra and complex heavy jazz, especially if we want a lil more SPL. But our pride and joy is our SET’s.