Separates vs Integrated

Maybe I will say a strange idea for the forum, but try to look at this topic from the point of view of your life. We will never find "that very sound", because we listen to different music and our perception of sound changes with age. But if you are interested in searching and experimenting and you can afford it, why deny yourself the pleasure of trying new different components? And when it stops bringing you happiness and you just want to listen to your favorite song, you can change the whole system to one good integrated amplifier and not dance with cables, etc. I also consider integrated amplifiers more of a lifestyle, one beautiful thing looks good on a modest stand or an expensive chest of drawers in a strict interior. But not everyone is interested in this. And there is a compromise option: deal only with the source that you listen to the most, for example, take an integrated preamplifier-amplifier, and select a DAC + streamer separately. For example, I listen to vinyl more, so I use a separate phono preamp, and the DAC, streamer and amplification are all in one integrated amplifier. It seems to me that you need to look at the needs, and not how it sounds, because everything sounds good in its own way in this price segment.

I’ve encountered integrateds that outperform many separates combos, but also the inverse. 
 

All else being equal, separates tend to be better. For example, Parasound separates outperform the Parasound integrated, as they should given the cost difference. 
 

OTOH, an integrated like the Gryphon Diablo, and to a lesser extent (I dare to say) my Yamaha A-S2100, can outperform quite a few separates systems. For example, my $1600 (used market price) Yamaha sounds better than many separates systems I’ve compiled that mated tube preamps to solid state amps, such as the Allnic L-1500 with a Benchmark AHB2 amp ($8500 combined retail) but the Benchmark LA4 preamp mated to the AHB2 amp is better than the Yamaha in a few regards. I’m pretty certain I would trade any of my current separates/integrateds for a Gryphon Diablo 300, however, even pre-owned Diablos sell for many times the price of my Yamaha. The performance delta is not worth it to me currently. What’s most amusing to me is that the Yamaha’s preamp section better creates all the normally sought tube sonics (lushness, decay, midrange, dimensionality) than any tube-based unit I’ve owned/tried regardless of price, all while being quieter and more resolving. 

I had a similar experience as @yyzsantabarbara and @zlone regarding a Coda preamp. I much preferred the dead-silent Benchmark LA4. It’s bizarre that Coda manufactures some very quiet power amps but then compromises the noise floor with their preamp designs. Baffling. They need a new preamp designer, maybe one from Guangzhou, China. 😂 

If you can do with a simple pre with only 2 inputs and outputs, the Topping A70 Pro preamp/HP amp is stupidly good and not just for its price. To my knowledge, it also happens to be the quietest, lowest distortion preamp in existence from an objective standpoint. 

My only noteworthy experience with Hegel is with their H190 integrated. It produced a very smooth but rather blunted sound. It was mostly underwhelming relative to other integrateds I’ve owned at its price point. If anything it performed better as a preamp/DAC than as a full integrated. One thing for certain is that its claimed noise spec is absolute horse manure. Bench tests I’ve seen for their products confirm that their specs are grossly exaggerated, and their feed-forward distortion/noise reduction “tech” is essentially ineffective. 

It’s certainly an interesting question.  

Would a $30,000 integrated sound better than a $1,000 amp and a $1,000 preamp.   Well I hope so and it better.

Would a $10,000 integrated sound better than a $5,000 amp and a $5,000 preamp?  Maybe.  I’m sure there are some nice integrated amps at that price point.  
 

The other issue with separates is compatibility.  Will they work well with each other?   Hopefully but you never know.   With an integrated you shouldn’t have that issue.

Would a $30,000 integrated sound better than a $1,000 amp and a $1,000 preamp. Well I hope so and it better.

Would a $10,000 integrated sound better than a $5,000 amp and a $5,000 preamp? Maybe. I’m sure there are some nice integrated amps at that price point.

That would be the logical conclusion since you do generally get what you pay for with consumer products.

For whatever reason though, over the long haul, I’ve found that rule of thumb doesn’t really apply to “audiophile” stereo components. It mostly does with speakers, but with ancillaries, it’s largely a crapshoot. For example, the Topping Pre90 and A70 Pro preamps. Both retail for about $500, and both outperformed the $5500 McIntosh C49 in my system, by a rather wide margin. Both are/were better sounding than the Mac by every metric. I’ve had similar experiences with DACs, integrateds and amps. For another example, I had a Yamaha A-S500 integrated (bought on closeout for $250) that mostly embarrassed the $3000 Rogue Pharaoh. I could cite at least half a dozen more examples where the “Chi-Fi” or mass market underdog handily defeated a comparatively boutique brand.

Unfortunately, similar to the world of remodeling contractors, there seem to be a large number of hifi companies that fail to back up their talk. Seems many rely on a listener’s confirmation bias to make the sale.

A DIY Built Pre Amp at a cost of approx' £300  was the Pre-Amp chosen by an individual with a very expensive system.

At the time of trying out Pre Amp's, Branded Commercial designs had been used in the system up to £5K in value.

This same Pre Amp is still in use today about 3-4 Years on. The only change being very recently it has been co-joined in use by another DIY design for a Pre-Amp to increase the options on an end sound the system can produce. The total costs on Pre Amps at present is up to about £800