Sell Me Your Women, Your Children, Your Vintage Turntable...


Ok I’m trying to understand the appeal of buying something like an old Garrard 301 or an elderly Technics all trussed up in a shiny new plinth, versus something manufactured in the 21st century by people not wearing clogs.

Surely modern gear has to perform better, dollar for dollar? It isn’t like these restored Garrards are exactly cheap, i was looking at one for almost $11k yesterday on Reverb. The internals looked like something out of a Meccano set.
 I ought to be more in tune with the past, I’m almost 60 and wear bell bottoms, but the style of the older TTs just doesn’t do it for me. Now then, my Dr. Feickert Volare had a look that was hardly futuristic, but that’s about as retro as I’d prefer to go.
All that said... I will buy one of these old buggers if it genuinely elevates performance. 
With $10k available for table and arm, on the new or used market, how would you splash the cash?

Rooze 
128x128rooze

Showing 5 responses by mijostyn

I don't buy a turntable to be beautiful. It has to work in all respects. I can understand being into antiques but not at the expense of performance. Idler wheel turntables rumble. If you rebuild them with amazing parts they will start rumbling in a few months and it will get worse as they age. It was the prime reason belt drive turntables took off but they are admittedly poor at slip "Q' ing. Radio stations got better and FM stereo required better, quieter turntables for commercial use which is where direct drive tables came in. Now you have all these old idler wheel tables lying around for cheap money and a few years and a bunch of mythology later they are the best performing turntables made....not. There is no way in 
h--l you are going to keep that many bearings quiet. Why do you all think the AR XA  took off so abruptly. You have to look at it in context of what was available at the time. Many of the best turntables made today mimic the XA's design in one or more ways.  It may have had a lousy tonearm but darn it was quiet and it did not feed back. All of the best turntables made today are belt drive. There are a few that dabble in idler and direct drive but it does not appear the market takes them seriously. 

So by all means stick with modern turntables they are better.  
Billwojo, you forgot the motor which is directly connected to the plater in an idler drive. It does not have a bearing? Actually, it has two, one on either side of the stator. I'm sure it is a cool device. But, it is using outdated technology. They did not have electronic drives back then so the only way they could get multiple speeds in a high torque turntable was with a stepped drive shaft. Edgar Villchur realized that the requirements of audiophiles differed from radio stations, that quiet was much more important than torque. In one feel swoop he created the largest single step in turntable technology ever made. 
SME, Avid, Basis, Techdas and Kuzma do not use heavy, solid chassis? My Sota Cosmos uses a 1" thick Aluminum plate.
The excuse I here the most used to justify idler drives is that the torque gives the music more "drive." I have news for all of you. Idler drives are much less accurate over time than the best belt drive not to mention highly accurate direct drive turntables. They have more trouble maintaining 331/3 rpm than any other turntable design, wow and flutter. 
Their argument against belt drives is that belts stretch. Good belt drives have far less wow and flutter which is were stretchy belts would show up. The belts are stretched tight enough that any resonance is far above a heavy platter's ability to change speeds. 
What you have here are lame excuses to justify buying and rebuilding an ancient idler drive table. You don't need any excuses. They are wonderful devices and an important part of audio history. You cherish that more than the best absolute performance. I drive an old 911 for the same reason.  
@lewm , no argument from me.

Billwojo, given that an idler drive usually has much more torque than a belt drive reason would have it that you would have to worry about slippage with an idler much more than you would a belt drive. The rubber on every idler wheel I have ever handled is seriously less compliant than the stiffest belt. The Idler wheel is a direct connection between the motor and the platter. As a matter of fact than darn thing is jammed in between the shaft and the platter and held there with a spring loaded mechanism. At least the TD 124 had a belt between the motor and the flywheel/driveshaft.
@lewm , I owned a Td 124II and in comparison to a modern turntable it was brutal. Even with an SME on it the AR XA easily out performed it. But, what does a 16 year old know. I bought it used at one of the local HiFi stores and was pleased as punch to start with. No apologies needed.
I have never used a Lenco and undoubtedly never will. But you seem pleased as punch with it which is all that counts.
@terry9 , I'm afraid that is faulty thinking. True you do not have to worry about foot fall problems. But, you do have to worry about everything else.
Don't believe me? Keep your turntable off and place the stylus down on a record, turn up the volume and go have a look at your woofers. They are fluttering. With a Sota they will be dead still. It is called environmental rumble. At worst you might feed back, again a Sota will not do this. 
Vibration travels through everything and a turntable is a very sensitive vibration measuring device. It does not care where the vibration comes from. Traveling through the air it will sound will even vibrate your tonearm creating an echo that people seem to like. It screws up the imaging. A proper dust cover will cut this at least 10 dB like hearing protectors for your cartridge. Mike Fremer solves the problem by putting his turntable in another room. Mark Dohmann is busy designing an isolation dust cover for the Helix along with vacuum clamping. Fremer also uses a MinusK platform under his table even though it is in another room. He is convinced it sounds better. Watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rgK0YMsJXM