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UPDATE
I made my decision, drank the BBC Kool aid, and purchased the Harbeth 40.2 Annie’s, all in with the TonTrager stands.
At the proverbial end of the day, for me, I just really felt such an emotional soothing connection when demo’img it with my records that I didn’t get from most of the others. Very musical, warm, engaging and so natural sounding, the 3 drivers really do come off sounding like one big driver they are so seamless. Voices are the best I heard and the bass is very musical, not that one note blurr. No shrill at loud volumes, non-fatiguing and not analytical which I internally associate with being cold. Heavy metal not my thing but for soft rock, folk, blues, jazz where the vocals are front and center its smooth as silk.
On the downside, to my eyes they are not aesthetically pleasing as speakers are designed these days,, and not anything I would have thought of getting but they are seriously HUMONGOUS in person, these are not satellite speakers as I tend to think of that design. And they definitely don’t image as well as the other floorstanders, so that was major compromise for me, but close your eyes its not such a big deal.
Well all adventures must come to an end. I learned a lot and it was a fun but an overwhelming 2 months.
And a huge thanks to the key peeps who reached out on this forum and guided me along, keeping me straight -- I tend to be impulsive which is not a healthy trait in this hobby. Will see how things go, but at least I made some new friends.
And of course I’ll leave the door open in the sense that if I can demo future speakers in my room against the Harbeths I certainly will. But for the near term I’ll let contentment settle in....
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@lancelock
Yeah Mark the owner of LTA specifically recommended that speaker. Im leaning towards running the zotl40 as monoblocks to double the watts to 92-100.
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@roxy54
And @snopro
Thx ! It was fun. I just finished all my cabling and now I’m going through withdrawal !
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@roxy54
LTA uses Anticables on their preamp/amps at their shop and in a bunch of shows so I went with Level 3 power cords, Level 3.1 speaker cable and Level 6.2 RCA ICs.
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@noromance
Yes from Brooklyn. The Gibbon X is on my list actually. Thanks |
Spendor and Gershman. Got it. |
I have an appt in two weeks to listen to the Spendor D9.2 at Sound by Singer in Manhattan. They are still closed for demos. |
@psag Definitely would have to audition those speakers, some so-so reviews online.
I guess it depends how you define imaging. Your definition must be different than mine which is ok. All good.
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@twoleftears Thank you. I will ask the dealer (SBS) about the Spendor Classic line.
@joey54 Thx - you are 3rd person to mention that audio shop. They are only 40 minutes from me so I will email them about the Vandersteens.
@geoffkait Hi thanks for the reply but where did I mention wide soundstage and lots of air. I dont even know what lots of air means. Ive never heard a wide soundstage in a lounge, have you?? Oh and do you have any recommendations?
@fsonicsmith What points to sterile and analytical? Was it imaging x3? Where speakers disappear -- is that analytical? I said I wasnt looking for fatiguing treble energy -- you've confused me because I've been told the exact opposite by most others that fatiguing treble energy is analytical and sterile. And when you ask if I'm sincere, do you really mean I just don't know what I'm talking about or I'm not telling the truth? Anyway, that being said, any recommendations?
@steakster Thank you! I started to do searches but its a bit overwhelming for me and opinions and recommendations change all the time. But yes my current speakers image really well - blows me away; just looking for that and more. Do you have any recommendations for imaging, tone and coherency?
@verdantaudio Thx. I thought Raidho caters to the uber wealthy with $250,000 speakers? I'll check out Avantgarde.
@marqmike Thx. I will check them out but my fiancee hates stands in her living room but she is amicable to large piano black towers, lol
@noromance Thx again! Hows the 200 line? Taking notes....
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@mribob Thx. List is 25,500, a littl3 over where i want to be.
@bubba12 I had a long demo on Exotica3. They look nice, well constructed, just didn't have any connection. I'd really like to hear the SS9.5s but there are no owners near me and I live among 20 million people. |
@sunkenpirate. I heard the Martin Logans are harder to drive so don't work well with Tubes for example and they also sell them at Bestbuy which gives me pause- maybe it shouldn't but it does.
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Wow what a deluge of recommendations overnight! So overwhelmed. I’d love to hear all of them in my house in a blind listening session but thats obviously impossible!
I will include panels - a dealer I’ve purchased from in the past wants me to buy Martin Logan Expression 13a heavily discounted right now would be his choice. Magnepans are better ? But they look a lot bigger?
Other brands that peaked my interest are Magico, Vandersteen, Sound Labs, Nola and Bache Tribecas!
Interesting so far Harbeth has been recommended the most.
Last point, whomever told me about SkyFi Shop which is like 15 minutes from me. Thank you- that may be my best bet as they can bring over several different rebuilt speakers (some of the same brands above come in and out of their shop) at a huge discount to my living room. Its an idea anyway. They have Nola Baby Grand Referemce for 25k, retail was $60k, just an example. |
@cleeds
Ok I'm learning. :) Their own website refers to them as electrostatics but a diff magnet technology. Regardless, they are often compared and contrasted to ML and Soundlab. So have you listened to compare? |
Has anyone compared Magnepan to Martin Logan? Both electrostatic dipole panels but ML took the hybrid approach and uses a traditional box subwoofer for the bass. On Magnepans website they take an indirect shot at ML basically saying they could have chosen that path but didn't think it was optimum. Result - Magnepan is a much bigger obtrusive speaker. But is it sonically a notoceable difference 🤔
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As the 3 day holiday weekend here in the US closes out (beautiful weather here in the northeast), I’m spending some time setting up an excel spreadsheet on the various recommendations and where I can hear them.
So far I’ve tallied 29 different speaker choices. I had to leave out some recommendations - for example, I left out all speakers requiring stands except the Harbeths because they got the highest amount of votes -5 to be exact which is telling.
While still taking recommendations, the next cut will eliminate speakers that aren’t available to demo either at a dealer or a audiophiles home within 90 minutes of my address- meaning the metro NY, Nj, CT area is wide open. Cuomos covid response is also potentially a limiting factor.
It is wild how so many people truly believe theirs is the very best for what I’m looking for. How could 29 different speakers be the very best audio nirvana....TBC
P.S. Interestingly, some of the bigger high profile names didn’t garnish one vote, Revel and Focal and B&W come to mind.
P.S.S And I did get one addtl VERY STRONG recommendation over at AVS forum for Wharfedale and their newest Elysian 4.
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@djones51
Yep. The Revel Salon 2 supposedly beats out every speaker time amd time again in blind tests at John Scheurmann's The Screening Room in Colorado. |
@twoleftears
Wow those are the most beautiful speakers I have ever seen! A little out of my price range even with a discount, but will keep in mind in case I see a demo or used. Thx |
@douglas_schroeder
Thank you, thats helpful technical education. Putting ALL THAT ASIDE, what are your opinions and what have you found to be the differences in sound qualities all things being equal that each technology is trying to achieve and does achieve? There are always compromises in speaker design and you've done a number of reviews on both types. |
@avanti1960
Hi thx. So I originally started out with an amp in mind and posted such and got slammed and was told to pick the best speakers for your budget and room, and that the amp, less of a contribution to overall sound, would limit speaker choices. "Class A/B watts are cheap and tube amps limit choices 4 ohms no way, etc." Seems like I can’t win either way! Lol. So anyway I say to you let’s worry about the best matching amp later and willing to budget as needed. Ok?
Anyway, I do have constraints in my 22Lx18Wx25H room. The speakers have to be along the 22 ft wall and the couch is indeed against the opposite wall. My current speakers are 2 feet from the back wall and about 6 feet from the side walls and sound good to my ears (but have not done any room analysis). Room is carpeted and has that big couch and some side chairs, two coffee tables. I’d post a pic here if I knew how. Anyway there you have it. |
@cleeds its literally right on the website in the history section. I cant cut and paste from my cellphone.. Anyway I'm interested in what you found to be the differences? Thx in advance.
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@tomavodka
Magnepan is now the lead vote-getter. Unfortunately, I don’t think I have the proper room set up for them. Speakers are limited to about 2-3 feet from the back wall at most and most of that back wall consists of HUGE 15 foot windows. I was told that would be a sonic disaster with planars... |
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@terry9
Yeah i really wanted the panels/electrostats especially the Quads, but was told by many that the 12 foot windows are a non starter.
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@flatblackround
As I’ve been given over 40 speaker choices claiming to all be "the be all end all", Hijack away! As the OP, I’ll start off. To me it means a warm sound, not analytical, that can be played at low levels with all the nuance. Involving is a good synonym..And above all else not boomy on the low end and not piercing on the high. And yes if the pair were female (in my case) well then....
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@iopscrl
C’mon dude. Pick the speakers first, then match the amp. Golden rule. Even electrical amp engineers told me that one. BUT if I had to lean in a direction, it would be towards a tube amp, since I spent the better part of 25 years swapping solid state amps in and out of my home theater.
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If anyone is keeping score, it just goes to show how silly but profound my post was. Whether the recommendation came from a dealer, distributor, boutique manufacturer, engineer, or plain enthusiast/audiophile, the responses meeting my criteria (which lets face it wound up being a "best of the best floorstanders" under $25k) yielded almost 50 responses, so far.
I'm not even sure how all these speaker manufacturers stay in business (God bless them). A few picks like Harbeth or Yamaha aren't floorstanders but got so many nods they make it on the list FWIW. How does one even approach this other than listen to what they can and then make a decision?
Here's the tally in no particular order as of July 10th
1. Devore Orangutan 093, 096 (and Gibbon X)
2. Tektan (Moab, Double Impact, Ulfberht)
3. Spendor 100/200 or D's
4. Gershman Acoustic Grand Avant Garde
5. Harbeths
6. Tannoy (Kensington), Revolution XT8F, Cantebury
7. Vandersteen
8. Boenicke W11SE
9. Raidho C2.2, C3.2
10. Avantagarde Zero
11. Wilson Yvette/Sabrina
12. Horning Eufrodite
13. Magnepan
14. Magico S1MKII,S3MKII and A5
15. Legacy Audio Aeris/Focus XD
16. ATC SCM XXXX
17. SoundLab Electrostatics
18. NOLA KO's
19. Bache Audio
20. Audio Physic Tempo
21. Jern
22. Martin Logan
23. Sonus Faber Olympica Nova
24. Spatial Audio X3, X5, M3
25. Audio Note E
26. Pure Audio Project
27. Neuphor
28. Joseph Audio
29. Wharfedale Elysium 4
30. Zu Audo
31. Vienna Acoustics The Music (Used)
32. Dali Epicon 6 or 8
33. Soundlabs Electrostatic
34. Yamaha NS5000
35. Daedalus Apollos
36. Fyne 701s
37. Dynaudio Contour 60i(take your pick), Special 40s
38. Revel Salon 2/Studio 2
39. Audio Physic Avanti II
40. Audiokinesis Azel (Duke!)
41. ProAc K6 Signature
42. Focal Jm Lab Utopia
43. Janszen Valentina P8
44. KEF Blade 2
45. QUAD Electrostat
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@millercarbon
Thx for the post. Which speaker line ?
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@flatblackground
Ah ok they are #2 on the list I posted. Moab, Double Impact or Ulfberht. And they are on sale. |
Some OP nostalgia....
Around 1991 after I graduated college, I bought my first pair of speakers at the Listening Room in Scarsdale NY.
There I auditioned, eyes closed, 4 sets of speakers all in the same price range -- Thiel, Mirage, Snell and Def Tech BP10. I don’t remember the model numbers for the first 3, because I wound up buying the BP10’s. That bipolar sound, whether a gimic or not, had me at hello some 30 years ago. I think the other 3 are no longer making speakers and Def Tech has cheapened their line in my opinion since the 1990’s. The Listening Room closed up shop years ago. Times change, but I’d like to do a similar thing with at least 4 speakers again.
P.S. I paired it with a Pioneer Elite receiver from the Listening Room (I think Dolby Surround had just been introduced), and that receiver was a tank, it was beautiful and never an issue (It was over $1k at the time) so I kept it for 30 years, rarely used, and only recently gave it away in full working order. |
@yuvalg9
Thx Yuval. I should have been more specific but I do currently own the Navis ARF51 which is an active but all analog designed tower for $4600 pair. You cited the ARB51 which is the smaller bookshelf at $2,300 a pair not $16,000 lol. I even reached out to Mr. Jones to see if he had any interest in designing a no compromise Reference Navis model but never heard back.
I’m familiar with Triton but they are not an all active design just the subwoofer is powered which is pretty common these days. In fact it was Sandy Gross owner of Triton who designed one of the first powered sub enclosed tower speakers with passive radiators when he owned Def Tech. Cheers
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@limomangus
It is crazy how discounted used speakers generally are, similar to a car once you drive it off the lot and then when start to add miles, especially when newer models come out. Case in point, Raidho speakers. People who can afford Raidho seem to typically trade after just a couple years as newer models come in and sell the older versions for like 60-70 percent off. Raidho D3.1's which are 70k speakers selling for under 25k on audiogon/ebay/hifishark. There's a guy on the same sites selling his 107k msrp YG Acoustics A Anat Reference II for 25k. And he lives on Long Island. I should just rent a Uhaul and be done with it. Lol . Of course its not without its risks.
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@roberjerman
For some reason the admin deleted my response maybe because I cursed slightly but whatever. So while Quads were at the top of my list, there are 3 reasons why they won't work for me.
1. The Quads would be placed no more than 2-3 feet away from a back wall of all windows and I called Quad and their own technical guy told me, with this particular dipole design, it could be a huge mistake and didnt recommend that placement (but that's all that works in my room).
2. The used Quads like the 2912 and its smaller sibling had major issues and were falling apart so Quad had to fix probably everything imported into the US, and then stopped importing to fix the issue; I heard they will be importing again towards End of summer/Fall, so I wouldnt want to risk even $5k on a defective product even if refurbished.
3. Perhaps the biggest issue is that my fiancee took one look at them and said quote, "I'm pretty tolerant with all your audio stuff, but there is no way you are putting these things in my living room" unquote but with a few expletives left off.
So maybe at some future point.
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@twoleftears
Yes glue plus some other quirks is what I was told. Some California 3rd party is fixing those under warranty and supposedly the UK fixed the issues in the China manufacturing plant. Time will tell.... |
@jhills. Thanks
I hope one day to acquire a top of the line pair of Maggies or Quads for my man cave. Right now there are way too many variables to make it happen in our main living room, but I appreciate your candor. I did get to hear the 1.7s earlier this week at a Wilson dealer in NYC and the sound was pleasant. |
@helomech
Funny you should ask. Actually yesterday I visited Dave, the Audio Doctor in Jersey city at his crazy modern museum of audiophile systems. He had been shut down since March and just recently reopened. I listened to the top of the line Golden Ear towers, the gorgeous Legacy Aerus and a little known speaker from Long Island the Alta audio titanium Hesta. There were many others I wanted to hear such as the Paradigm Persona 9h and the kef ref 5 and blade but he just wasn’t operating full throttle yet so I promised to return. The Triton Reference were full bodied but not refined enough. Reminded me too much of Def tech. The Aerus were physically gorgeous but way too much base for me. It was intense. The Alta Hesta were a game changer. They defined imaging + transparency/clarity = massive 3D soundstage. I loved them but worry too much about the dipole in my living room.
My first visit that day was to Verdant Audio in lower Jersey City overlooking WTC Freedom Tower and their AvanteGarde XD Passive. My first horn loaded system and the mids and highs draw you in like no speaker I’ve ever heard. Female vocals were captivating. And an absolutely gorgeous modern piece of art.
Overwhelming.
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@mdalton
Ty but I just can't take on anymore lol. Almost 60 different speaker recommendations all claiming to meet the stated objectives. Im shocked there hasn't been much consolidation in the industry. |
@mdalton
Olive wood. No choice there. The Anniversary was produced in limited quantity and even more limited in what was imported into the USA. Except for demos, I think most dealers are out of stock and waiting next year for the 40.3 XD which for all intents and purposes is the same speaker.
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@mdalton
Definitely old school ! And our house and room is also very modern so Burl would have been a nice offset to warm things up too. Relaxed is a great adjective. For some reason this forum doesn't allow pics and I don't know how to use the url to post.
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I had written a pretty lengthy response but my laptop froze and then shut down. Oh well. Anyway in a nutshell. I have the Linear Tube Audio z40, which is 46wpc integrated NOS Mullard EF2 EL34 tube integrated amp. Quite a remarkable piece of electronics.
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@audiotroy
The Harbeths? The link you included is to an audiophile private chat group that one has to sign up for, not to any particular speaker. |
