Second opinions — how have others (including non-audiophiles) helped you?

But, language and concepts arise from and exist within, to use hilde45’s words, something pre-conceptual, pre-linguistic, i.e. a conscious backdrop or ’ground of being’. This is where our direct experience happens.

Forgive me, I was wrong. Previously I thought you were considerate, well mannered and good natured. Now I have see multiple occasions where you turn simple exchange into defensive argument. Enjoy your God. Enjoy your concepts.

Concepts are the baggage that doesn’t allow those who cling to them to pass through the eye of the needle. I don’t quibble with the polarity/duality distinction, but concepts require extension in time. To enter the kingdom of God you go naked and alone... no concepts allowed.

the notion that perception needs language to exist "adequately" (whatever that means) is, I think, a wrongful importation of the conceptual into something which is, if not completely pre-conceptual, at least pre-linguistic.

And the stories people are telling here about non-audiophiles speaks volumes for their fully adequate perceptions *regardless* of their ability to express or describe them.

Perception needs the processor, and language takes us into the conceptual realm. But there is also the immediate, gut level perception that needs no language. Language often gets in the way of and can distort the visceral, animal level, immediate experience of things.

I read an article long ago which pushed back against the idea that people had lost most of their sense of smell. What researchers discovered was that people lacked the language to designate what they were experiencing, and that with some training in olfactory vocabulary, their sense of smell seemed to improve. Of course, their senses were fine -- what improved was their communication about their senses. And as any wine expert can tell you, this can feed back into their ability to discriminate. Hume wrote about this long ago, by the way.