Hey,Larry-I think I came off a bit too obnoxious in my thread, mentioning you're enthusiasm over the UNIV.You have every right to be overly enthusiastic about such a product,and should bring it up whenever you feel it's appropriate!!I'm sorry!!! |
Gmorris,loosen up,a bit.We are all having a good little chat.Nobody's calling anyone names,and this is how someone, like me,evaluates a product,and files the feedback in my memory bank(admittedly,a small one,at that).
I think Frank and Larry knew that I was being a bit "tongue in cheek",and I didn't detect any hostility,from them.I did have a "mild" concern about the "tightness issue"(one that didn't really bother me all that much,anyway)and just wanted to put it out there.So what?That is part of the fun of this forum,so long as nobody trashes a product,or each other.For me,it's all part of a learning process.I,unlike some,don't know it all!I,only,definitively, know my own stuff!You seem to be a good guy,so I hope you understand.
As for Frank's frequent responses.I,too,once questioned this.My take is this:He has every right to respond.He seems to take real PRIDE in his product,and it's reputation(would you want it any other way?).He has knowledge of his competition,and we can learn,a bit,from his input.Finally,and since I own a business,this is "damn good business practice",he continues to help his products by giving them exposure,through threads like this!
Larry,don't get pissed off,but you did make the claims of the "clear superiority" of the arm shoot out,PRIOR to my input pertaining to the 2.2 fluid(which I DON'T consider groundbreaking,just "BACKBREAKING",but I loved the "TWEAK" journey of discovery, when learning it for myself).You,now,admit that you learned, from getting better acquainted with the voicing potential of the fluid quantity(which is great).So,why should I not question the "absolute" validity of the comparison,some months ago.Believe me,when you get the REF,I'll be salivating for your response,in comparison to the 2.2.As of now I remain just a bit specious.I,certainly,never thought you didn't like the (quite fabulous,BTW)2.2!!This is the way it should be amongst audio friends.My friends tear each other apart during intense listening sessions(maybe I'm in the wrong crowd,actually),if someone doesn't like a particular aspect of set-up,or interfacing.To me,it has bettered my evaluation senses,and I've benefitted from this,in the long run(I think)!!
I really don't get too worked up if something I own gets a bad rap,from another hobbyist,or reviewer.Who cares!As long as I feel I know that product,and I'm not rationalizing to myself,about it.BTW,I'm NOT accusing you of any of this.Just sharing some(probably boring)thoughts.The ONLY time I get worked up is if I feel I'm at an impass on a particular component,that I've invested in,and I cannot get the performance,from it,that I feel I should.As of now(actually last night)I'm "reasonably" happy.Though that may change when you do get around to communicating you're, educated, thoughts on the REF vs the 2.2!!Or Albert Porter FINALLY "tells the world" that his tubed crossover modded Megalines are the "Real Deal".So,take your time.PLEASE!!!Let me be happy for a couple of days! |
Larry,with all due respect.You do begin to sound a bit like what some accuse Raul of,when you go on about the UNIV!!I know you,and some others,have not actually claimed the ABSOLUTE superiority of it,but it's a bit rediculous to go on about it,or any product, as much as you do.To me,a product loses some credibility when someone uses every oportunity to tout it!
I hope you realize that this is in a good spirit,that I mention this.I don't want to create any kind of a rift.However your response to me,about how I may change my opinion on the Schroeder(which I have clearly stated,looks like a real winner),when set up with a Univ,smacks of condescension,particularly if you really think I am cynical about that arm,and that I'm just "twisting at windmills",for making some fairly valid claims.I have absolutely NO problem with that,and I KNOW YOU MEAN WELL,as I do.However,to me,the Univ is, simply put,another potentially fine cartridge,that some have garnished a true enthusium for.Heck,my pal's new,and improved Titan sounds darn near perfect to me.Come to think of it,my Transfiguration Temper-v gives me little to complain about.So,some very nice people,that I have been priviledged to correspond with happen to "LOVE" their cartridge too,and mention it ALOT!!I'm sure it is another,of a never ending collection,of really fine performers,to have recently appeared.It won't be the last!
Also,Frank-I now know you have a propensity,as I do,for some sarcasm and humor(and I like it),but I never felt that I was the "only kid in class to do my homework",and have ALWAYS stated that fact.I mentioned it numerous times in my 2.2 damping fluid posts,some months ago.I,also,try to never dismiss anyone else's findings.
A'hem,I think it was,actually, you who had a thread erased a couple of months ago,in so doing what you,sort of,accuse me of,but I like you anyway!
Boy I really hope you guys don't get too mad at me.I'm just a bit frustrated this weekend,since I pulled a hamstring,just when my tennis game was taking off!!I guess I deserve any nasty responses directed at me!Bed rest "sucks"!! |
Frank,you were "WAY" too nice to me,in your response.I'm,now,a bit suspicious!! |
Thom,PLEASE!I'm happy that you are a confident and successful(not to mention nice guy)audio/music lover/dealer!!The fact is that all of these fine products could probably satisfy any of us.Based on your comments,and your not carrying the 2.2,as well as you claiming that it's musical aesthetic does not appeal to you,I stand by my original thoughts!Believe me,I'm not one who is rushing to the defense of something I own,that gets a bad rap from someone.I really don't care,but I do know when I'm being played,"just a bit"!And that's OK.As for the NOS tube "swipe",I was merely expressing an enthusiastic "moment".Of the 8 different tube type/families I've tried,in my phonostage,5 were superb!I could have lived with any of them,but you probably knew that.The new ones,simply happen to appeal to my tastes,not my psyche!You probably knew that too,but got a bit of a "RUSH" trying to knock me down.Though very politely.Thanks!I have no problem with that,as this forum is sort of fun when we take some liberties,in baiting oneanother.
A good tube circuit WILL sound better with better tubes.Some people are content with "run of the mill" tubes.I have never spent big money on NOS tubes,other than the three,recently,and since it was only THREE,it was not all that expensive,especially when you(of all people)take into account the costs of cartridges/tables/arms.Even the lower cost ones.How much does your table cost??So,who are we trying to kid,about a tube circuit,in a set-up that contains fine products(like the ones you sell)being deprived of the finest available support.I'll bet your turntable customers would like a BIT MORE!I've tried the Sovtek's,that you seem to like,and they were not for me,or my friend,who has my exact unit.
Also,it is fine if you really believe that a "good turntable and arm" do NOT need a top flight cartridge,but they sure sound a LOT better with one.Unless you have a tube phonostage with run of the mill Sovteks!Best of luck!!
Also,PLEASE understand that my comments are made with tongue firmly implanted in "cheek",so don't hunt me down,I have kids. |
Thom,you Are a gentleman,first and foremost!!Best regards. |
Yo!(well I do live in the tri-state NY area),might as well sound like a "New Yawka".I now realize why I decided to leave the little finger lift on the 2.2,when I set that arm up.
It WAS because,as you know Larry,and you probably forgot,Albert(and I don't blame you,since you have the FABS Walker),there is a small gap of about 2 inches that the arm travels,from arm rest to the cue bar(where one has to manually set it down).If the arm should slip,in that gap,Sayonara to the cantilever,possibly!I am a bit paranoid about that,so I'll probably keep my lift in place.Best of luck to all! |
BTW Larry,I'm coming to Florida next week (my dad's been under the weather,and I really must see him and my mom).Any places readily available,for me to hear a Shroder REF?I'll be in the Tamarack area,but will have my dad's auto available to me.I have no problem auditioning a REF,so long as I get in my tennis first!I'll be in from next thursday 'til tuesday,with my wife and daughter,but can steal away for the elusive REF?Get it?
BTW-this is really short notice,so I completely understand if there is NO REF available to audition!Best regards! |
Larry,
Your explanation to me is not really necessary,as I completely understand the aforementioned reasoning.As a businessman,myself,I completely understand Frank's actions(in general)and would behave similarly,if in his position.I have been criticised for seeming to "lean" towards the Schroder Ref,though truthfully I am a "ponderer",and love to mentally consider(sometimes over a good bit of time)possible ways to increase MY OWN listening pleasure.I haven't made too many mistakes,recently,in applying my idiosyncratic methods.These arm designs,on paper,really fascinate me,and there always seem to be great(sometimes heated)long running threads,that appear on this particular subject.What "fun"!!That is one reason I am so fascinated with the REF.A product that to me is rarer than the elusive Spice Bush Swallowtail!I have no complaints about any of this,and it is all part of the fun for me.I DO consider myself a potential buyer,in the future,but will look,carefully at all parameters,and competition.The REF is HIGH on the list.
I,also,could see making an arguement for the suspicious nature of the TERES statement,based on the timing of the just released RAVE review,of the Graham Phantom,by Michael Fremer.I have some very "contrarian" audio pals,who think along these lines,though I DO NOT.Also,it could be claimed that though TERES may sell all arms mentioned,he may make more profit on the Schroders.Before you get pissed at me Frank,I'm ONLY being the Devil's Advocate here.I DO NOT believe any of this,but these are considerations of some whom I know.I'm sure it was a coincidence.One can get some interesting feedback addressing certain subjects in not so "black and white" ways!Sorry!!Sorry?
To me,there are a couple of "pet subjects" that get my juices flowing.The arm/table/cartridge issue is one.It is amazing,to me,and has been demonstrated time and time again,to me,how critical this parameter is.The whole vinyl presentation relys on all of this,so I take the analog front end really seriously,as I'm sure all of us do.Everyone has their set of values.Best wishes! |
I think I stated, I believed the Teres comments were coincidence!I appreciated his input,greatly,and mentioned it too.Best wishe PS--Larry,how can I e-mail you?? |
Teres,thanks SO much for the feedback.I find your comments extremely interesting,and will consider them at a future point.Though you do indicate there were two differing cartridges at play,I feel confident that you were able to extrapolate some meaningful results.That being said,I do wish you could report back,soon,as to a final comparison using the same cartridge.
Recently Michael Fremer,giving a RAVE review of the Phantom (which I'm sure is wonderful)stated that he could not get a Schroeder Ref for review,and went on to assume that this was because of the backlog in orders,and that a review could be taking a chance.While I understand this,and don't know the reasoning,I am fascinated as to what that potential review would be like!
Best regards! |
Nrchy,mine was a long wait as well,but,SOTA is a small co.,and I assume you would only want Kirk to do the work,in assembling new products.I guarantee you that I waited longer,but it WAS worth it,in the long run.Best wishes.BTW--Any movement on the "Umbilical" issue?
Larry,what with your own private secretary,and seemingly nice "cushy" job(meant as a compliment),I can see a nice new handcrafted German tonearm in your future.That should put an end to the "Sibilence" issue.BTW-you sound like a kid on the phone.How many years did you say you've been in the hobby? |
SORRY!I feel pretty confident that anyone who does not have his/her "boat floated" by the 2.2's performance(not having anything to do with the excellence of the other arms,mentioned here)has definitely NOT had enough "Extensive" experience(coming from having spent your own money on one,so you're stuck with it,until you get it right)with the incredible degree of voicing options,that the "pain in the ass,but a blessing in disguise" damping fluid offers!!This along with the fabulous,and incredibly accurate,and repeatable other parameters offered in dialing it up.I can't buy into an arm(though I'm speculating,ONLY)that "voices", partly,to having the tightness of the cartridge mounting screws "variable".Why would I NOT want them tightly set in place,for maximum rigidity,and the elimination of potential resonances,over time?
Also,sorry Larry.You know I love you,but,I bet at the time of the 2.2 comparisons with the Schroeder(and you know I love that arm,so PLEASE don't anyone kill me,for a few ADMITTED speculations)you didn't really have the full feel of the Graham's "voicing" potential!Why do I feel that you or Doug will say otherwise!!
I know this comes off a bit "over the top",but I'm still learning the capabilities of the 2.2, to this date,and I love ALL the other arms mentioned.Well maybe the Robin isn't pricey enough!Just kidding!!
Now we've stirred the pot!Let's see what comes of it!Heh,heh,heh!!! |
I stand corrected!!But,you will, all, hear from me another day!!BTW-My Siemens CCa gamble,acquired for my phono section(3 rediculously low noisers,that replaced the wonderful Ediswans)turned out to be a great move.I absolutely HAD to have them,as I had NEVER seen tubes test this low in noise,EVER!!Went for my lungs too,actually I only had to sell a kidney,but,got good money for it,and don't really pee as much in tennis season anyway.My only system tubes are the three in this phonostage,and I have tried 8 differing types,with this being the Triple Crown Winner!!I,actually,NOW know how you feel about the Univ.,as of this point in time.
Got to go now,it's time to dress the wound from the surgery.I may also be willing to sell a lung,in the future if I can acquire some Amperex "pinched waist" variety,that test as low in noise as these CCa's.You should hear my beloved "handbell" reference disc now.Talk about resolving power,and with a crappy Transfiguration,to boot.What body part do you think a Univ is worth?
OK-I'm really going now........... |
Albert,of the three 2.2's in my audio circle,ONE has had the problem of "slight" off adjustments,over a reasonable amount of time.Not 10 minutes,and it is possible that the owner's floppy,home made dustcover,could be the culprit.Maybe there was a flaw in some arms,that has been corrected.I've never heard of this,in the arms of more recent vintage.You make a great point,as to the VTA set screw.The set screw in the Triplanar,I thought(when I owned that arm)was much worse,in terms of audibility between tight vs non tightened.
The Graham manual,as of now,does mention the use vs non use of the washers,though they give the end user the option,mentioning that without the washers,you can scratch up the top,a bit.I guess it's a matter of owner decision.I like your little finger lift advice.I had mine off on the Triplanar,some years ago,but have left mine on the 2.2.Hmmm!Maybe I can squeeze a bit more out of it.Thanks.
NOW GET BACK TO WORK ON REPORTING YOUR FINDINGS ON THE DARN TUBED CROSSOVER,FOR THE MEGALINES!!I'm really fascinated with that speaker!! |
