Say it aint so--- Teres quality question


As a preface-- I have been a lurker here at Audiogon for a number of years, but have never posted.

Yesterday a review of the Teres 200 series table was posted at Audioasylum. I am extremely concerned about what was stated.

I have always read fantastic things about the Teres, but this reviewer seemed to consider some issues with regard to quality-- ie:

"Some minor issues...the wood platter is not 100% true on the horizontal surfaces...a very slight rise...I suspect this is the nature of machining wood?" as well as "Product Weakness: Platter slightly off true"

I plan on joining the Teres family -- but have developed some reluctance after reading this.

Perhaps some of the members here with first hand experience will be able to put my concern at ease with regard to the reviewers statement.

Here is a reference to the post:

Review by Angus Black III on January 06, 2004 at 10:35:32

Thank you, and a special thanks to TWL for the always informative reading.

Focusedfx

128x128focusedfx

Showing 7 responses by twl

Well, I guess I had better weigh in here. I have been touting the Teres tables for quite a while now. Mine was very good in all respects, and was bought almost 2 years ago. Whether anything has happened to the QC since then, I don't know. Anyhow, I think it is up to whoever is buying the table as to whether they are concerned with these issues, and up to Chris about how he handles his QC and customer service. I don't have any stake in this matter at all, other than that I have recommended these tables in the past.

What I can say about tolerances on the platter surface is that it may not be as critical as some may think. I think that the vinyl records are not very uniform, sometimes are warped, and many platter mats or other platters may, or may not, be very perfect in their surfaces either. I haven't measured any, and frankly am wondering why people are measuring these things, unless there is some visual evidence that they are very far out, or there is some reason why some folks are concerned that Teres is cutting into the sales of some other turntable makers. I don't remember anyone measuring the platters of any other TT maker. But, then again, the other TT makers are not making the "waves" in the industry that Teres has made, and some people may be a little upset about it. In my opinion, however, the platter surface should be quite level and uniform in a production turntable. How much difference that it may make to the actual performance of the table could be debatable. Circumference tolerances would be much more critical in my opinion, regarding the speed regulation.

I've corresponded with Lugnut about the problems with the 265 that he is working on, and there is no doubt that there were some notable QC issues with that table. Also there were some notable customer service failures with that table when Pat tried to remedy the problems. So there is definitely a certified example of a problem with that one table. However, whether this can be extrapolated to the idea that there are problems with all of their tables may be going a little too far.

In any case, as with any manufacturer, the customer has the final say as to whether they will buy a given product. If Chris has gotten into QC problems and can't rectify them, then it will reflect in loss of sales. If he takes good care of the QC problems and rectifies the situation to the satisfaction of each customer, then he will be alright. All manufacturers have QC issues to handle.

To each his own. If you want a nice table that outperforms most or all of the competition, then a Teres is a viable option. If you cannot tolerate any QC problems, or have no DIY ability to overcome some of these issues yourself, then maybe a Teres is not for you. If you feel that getting a perfect QC product that doesn't perform as well as a Teres, and costs more than a Teres is what you want to do, then go for it.

In the final analysis, you buy what you want. Nobody is twisting anybody's arm to buy a Teres turntable. No turntable manufacturer is perfect, and they all have some kind of QC issues. To ask for perfection from any manufacturer is unrealistic. As long as your customer service issues are handled satisfactorily, and the product performs as you expected, that is what matters.
As far as the Teres tables not being stable, I live in a log cabin in East Tennessee, and I am currently sitting in my living room, where it is currently about 48 degrees INDOORS. I have a coat on. I am often out for nights and weekends and don't even run the heat during these times. I have temperature swings indoors from about 35 degrees in winter when I come back before I get the wood stove going, to about 95 degrees in summer because I have no air conditioning. The humidity ranges from about 20% during the winter to about 95% very commonly all summer, even when it isn't raining. Very humid climate here in the summer. I'd dare say that my temp and humidity swings are far far greater than ANYBODY reading this post. Sometimes I have temp swings of about 40 degrees IN A SINGLE DAY, like today when I came home this morning during an ice storm and then started warming up the house with the wood stove, which will eventually get it up to about 75 degrees before I go to bed. Also, my TT sits right next to a 6' sliding glass door, which doesn't have the greatest insulation, and gets opened to go out from time to time, even when it's very cold out.

I have a wood based Teres 245, and have NEVER had ANY instability problems whatsoever with my table. My table sounds great any time I play it(although I do have to adjust the VTF because of temp sensitivity in the cartridge).If any of you reading this even come close to this level of change in your listening environments, I would be VERY surprised.

In case there is any concern about my system having enough resolution to hear any changes, I might refer you to my system thread which will show a high efficiency SET OTL tube system that will reveal EVERYTHING mercilessly through 100db single driver speakers.

I fully understand the idea about wood moving around, since I also do woodwork in my custom acoustic guitar making activities. But I can state unequivocally that my Teres does not change sound performance because of any wood instability.

As far as no wood being used in tonearms, one of the highest regarded tonearms in the world right now, the Schroder, has a wood wand on it. Nobody seems to be complaining about it.

I'll try not to enter an opinion as to why there is an attack coming upon the Teres tables, even though I think it is quite apparent, due to the sales being taken away from the other more famous TT manufacturers.

I have nothing to do with the Teres Audio company now, nor have I had anything to do with them in the past, ever. I work for another audio company, and have no axe to grind about Teres, nor do I have any profit or loss motivation involved. I simply use their table, and am very happy with its performance and value, and have experienced none of the things being discussed on this thread in almost 2 years of ownership time.

IMHO, and YMMV.

Pat, I have no problem with any of your statements, since they come from a personal experience with the table. I simply take issue with others' statements which seem to stem from some sort of "theory" which is not borne out from actual use of the turntables under discussion. I can only conclude that there is some other reason for speculation like this, which doesn't come from experience with these units.

Regarding Black Angus' conclusions about "platter slightly off true", what does that mean? A few thou? Half an inch? What? And since it is probably a few thou, which didn't prompt him to worry about fixing it, and he is happy with the performance of the table, aren't some people trying to make something big out of this, when it seems to be a very minor issue in the eyes and ears of the reviewer Black Angus?

Personally, I find your experience to be much more troubling, in that you didn't get immediate attention to your legitimate problem with the armboard. That rests clearly on Chris' shoulders. Hopefully it was just a holiday related issue that won't happen again.
David, sorry for not mentioning your name in the group with actual experience with the Teres tables. I was just responding specifically to Pat's post. I don't mean to create problems here, and perhaps it would just be better if I exit out of this thread before any other feelings get hurt.

I would only say to others reading these posts to do what you want. It is no skin off my back, whatever turntable anyone buys. I thought I was being helpful in the past by recommending what I thought was a good way to get great sound and save money. Sorry if I offended anyone, or if anyone thinks I gave them a bum steer.
Thanks for the nice comments. But I think it may be best for me to just stay out of this now. I'm sure you all can come to your own conclusions just fine.

Pat, I agree that it is in everyone's best interest for an audio manufacturer to have good QC and customer service.
Currently building 2 D-41, 2 D-45, 2 D-18, and a Venetian double cutaway dreadnaught. The D-41's are maple of course, and we used some very nice quilted maple on one, and a superb feathercrotch maple on the other.Bindings are snakewood on these maple guitars,and flamed maple bindings on our dark wood guitars, as we don't use any plastic on our custom guitars. Full D-45 style abalone trim. The snakewood bindings and trim on the tail, neck heel, headstock, bridge, and back strip, really give a killer look. We are even using a snakewood fingerboard on the feathercrotch guitar. Fancy maple and snakewood is an awesome looking combination. The double cutaway is from exhibition grade Bubinga and bound with flamed maple. All have master-grade German spruce tops and our custom German Spruce modified X-bracing(similar to pre-war). Honduran mahogany kerfing and blocks, and Honduran mahogany one-piece neck. Alot of work, but they are great sounding and great looking instruments. This bracing allows medium strings without worrying too much about "bellying" the top.

Sorry to drift off topic, but I had correspond with the other guitar buffs.
Mejames, I don't have a digital camera, but the guy that owns the guitar shop that I work after-hours at has one, and I'll try to get some pix from him. I won't be going over there till the weekend.

David, I like Cocobolo for guitars too. It sounds real good and looks great too. I prefer it to Indian Rosewood, and some people feel it is competitive with Brazilian. We're making a Cocobolo D-45 with a 2-piece back, that has a wide sapwood streak down the middle, and looks fantastic.