SACD/CD Drive Mechanism Replacement

@jayctoy 

I spent 3 days at AXPONA in both 2023 and 2024.  At both shows, I really enjoyed the sound at the Joseph Audio/Doshi room.  They were alternating between the wonderful sounding J. Sikora turntable and streaming.  Those were the first time that I ever heard digital sound really enjoyable.  I can't remember what they used for the streaming, etc.  I'll have to maybe investigate that more.

I have probably about 1000+  truly mint lp's in both jazz and classical.  I have zero SACD's but am willing to purchase to add to my collection of music.  I have probably 100 or so CD's.

Best wishes,

Don

@jsalerno277  very good point, much appreciated.

@ghdprentice @mazian  You both might be right... that I should consider streaming.  I have to admit, I am very much old school.  Hence my vinyl rig that I love so much.  I don't have the first clue about streaming, so I have a lot to learn about that.  I don't even know where to start.

Best wishes,

Don

The players I am considering are very high-end products utilizing Esoteric VSOP drive mechanisms which are no longer being sold outside of Esoteric players.

If I were able to purchase a replacement, the manufacturer will be willing to install it, for a fee obviously, but my concern is this.... who knows how many years will go by before I would need the service and what if the manufacturer is no longer in business? 

I didn't know how complicated it would be to have some other audio technician do the installation?  

I'm not sure if the drive mechanism comes with the laser assembly, so that is a great question for me to ask.  Thank you for bringing that to my attention, glennewdick and jayctoy!

The more I keep trying to research CD/SACD players... it seems all the brands have issues with the drives, with many of them no longer being able to be serviced.  I have to admit... I'm getting cold feet about buying something used out of warranty, and I'm not willing to pay the price for these high end players new.  

I'm mainly a vinyl guy, but there are times I want to be able to listen to "new" music that isn't released on vinyl and I was hoping to find a player that will come close to my analog rig in sound.

I appreciate everyone's comments and giving me more to think about :)

Best wishes,

Don

I found what the Joseph Audio/Doshi room was using at the AXPONA shows for their digital streaming....

• Aurender N30A 8TB Music Server $25,000
• Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC Reference 3 $28,000
• Berkeley Audio Design Alpha USB $2,275

For that kind of money, it darn well sound pretty good, am I right??? Well, it did and it impressed the heck out of me!

So, my initial thought was to buy a very nice, but used SACD/CD player so that I could take advantage of my admittedly small cd collection of roughly 100 cd's.  I would then slowly but surely add to that as well as begin my SACD collecting.  It's good to hear that "now" is the best time to start collecting SACD's.

However, if I go the route of streaming, then I can't use my existing CD's, but it would eliminate the worry of a transport mechanism dying.  I just don't understand how the process of streaming works, etc.  I guess I'm showing my age, lol!

I guess another thought would be to get the used SACD/CD player and when the transport finally dies, then get a streamer and plug it into the DAC section of the player via USB, AES/EBU, Coaxial, or TOS Inputs.

Best wishes,

Don

@ghdprentice 

Great looking system and listening room!  I can imagine it sounds amazing!

So, for streaming, do you pay a monthly subscription fee or by the song?

Can you listen to a full album or only one song at a time?

Can you save favorites and then shuffle amongst them like hitting shuffle on a cd player?

Will the streaming sound as good as the physical disc?

Can I control it all from my iPhone?

Sorry for all the questions, this is really all very new to me. 

Best wishes,

Don

Wowza, $14.99/mth is dirt cheap.  I pretty much consistently spend a few hundred or more monthly on vinyl records from all over the world.  I pay 2 to 3 x's more for the shipping of one record than the monthly fee of streaming, so that's a big win right there alone!

I'm glad to hear that you do not seem to hear a difference between the formats.

Do you think the streamer or the dac makes the most difference in the sound reproduction?

Because I've always listened to vinyl, I am used to and actually prefer listening to whole albums.

When you talk about the library... is that stored on the iPad or maybe in my case MacBook Pro laptop; or is it stored in the streamer with either built in storage or added on storage?

Thank you for taking the time to help me better understand this new world of music curation.

Best wishes,

Don

@ghdprentice   Thank you again for the excellent run down on how the streamer works, etc!  Could I use my MacBookPro as the "remote" to run the Aurender streamer instead of an iPad? ( I'm just hoping to not have to spend money on yet another item, lol.)

I'm just in the very early stages of considering jumping into the digital side of things.  Originally, my thought was to buy a used high end SACD/CD one box unit.  Thinking that I could get better sound out of the admittedly small 100+ cd collection that I currently have and then also to start collecting SACD's.

Now, hearing that streaming with an excellent streamer can gain me access to SACD quality sound on 1000's of titles for roughly $15/mth sounds very appealing to me.  As also the added bonus of not having to worry about a laser/transport mechanism failing and having the fear of it not being able to be replaced.

So, now knowing that to get the better sound that I would desire, I should plan on budgeting equal amounts of money on both the streamer and the dac; I wonder about this the following as a possible scenario...

Instead of buying a used high end SACD/CD one box player; what if I would use my ancient Rotel 955AX cd player that uses the TDA1541A multi-bit dac that I've had for decades (which still amazingly somehow plays without skipping) as a cd transport via coax into a very nice dac (which I would still have to buy), allowing me to play my current cd's while saving up for a very nice Aurender streamer.  My hope would be that the new dac would give me a significant upgrade in sound over the internal dac of the Rotel.  Or would that not be the case because the inexpensive Rotel would not make a decent enough transport to reap the sonic gains of the new dac?

Best wishes,

Don

@jafant  My original thoughts were to buy a very nice SACD/CD one box player.  I was considering something along the lines of the EMM Labs XDS1 v2 or XDS1v3 or a Playback Designs model.  Both of which, if I recall correctly utilize Esoteric's VSOP drive mechanism.  If I am not mistaken, Esoteric will no longer sell these drives to other manufacturers or to consumers.  They will only use them in Esoteric gear.

I'm still trying to decide what will be the best route for me to follow.  Analog is my first love for the recorded medium and I will not be giving that up.  I have a lot of money invested in the analog set up and vinyl records; and to my ears it sounds amazing.  I am investigating the digital side of things as I am aware it has come a long ways over the years and I am discovering that there is a lot of great music that I am missing out on that is not available on vinyl.

Best wishes,

Don

@yoyoyaya  I appreciate your post!  I very well could be wrong about which transport it uses.  I was solely going off of what I had read in the various reviews of the EMM Labs XDS1 SACD/CD player where I had read it uses Esoteric’s VOSP vertically-aligned optical stability platform.  As it is mentioned in 6moons Audio  https://6moons.com/audioreviews/emm/1.html ; in the Enjoy the Music review https://www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/equipment/0410/emm_labs_xds1.htm; on the Audio Aficionado forum https://www.audioaficionado.org/showthread.php?t=42683 ; as well as on other forums.  Someone could have gotten it all wrong and all the others may just be parroting that mis-information for all I know.  I'll also freely admit that I am very ignorant when it comes to all things digital.

I have read amazing things about the Esoteric K03-XD SE!  If I remember correctly, there are people who actually prefer the sound of that player over that of Esoteric's more costly models... which is very high praise indeed .

As I had mentioned earlier, I am in the very beginning stages of trying to decide which route to go down and I am keeping a very open mind with all of this... so I truly appreciate yours and everyone's advice and willingness to share your thoughts,  experiences and guidance with me.

I would love to be able to hear the EMM XDS1 v2 or the Esoteric K03-XD SE in my system!  However, seeing as I would be buying used, I don't know how I could manage to do that without buying both and then selling off one or the other.  Sadly, I don't know that I would be able to do that.

Have you been able to compare the K03-XD SE with other players side by side in your system?  If yes, I'd love to hear your thoughts about the comparisons that you have been able to experience.

Best wishes,

Don

@ghdprentice

Ha ha, yes I know... it’s almost unfathomable that my wife and I do not have an iPad I’m so technology challenged that I am actually quite embarressed. I thought I was doing pretty good by at least having an iPhone and a MacBook Pro, lol. Could I use the MacBook Pro to control the Aurender once I get around to getting the streamer?

I don’t think I want to make things too complicated, so I don’t think I would want to use the MacBook Pro to stream to the dac. I think I would put the streaming on hold until I can afford to also purchase the Aurender.

So this would leave me with too options....

1. Use my old Rotel 955AX cd player as a transport into a very nice dac (TBD yet) while saving for a very nice Aurender to eventually stream music. However, my concern is that using my old and cheap Rotel as a transport, I won’t reap the sonic benefits of having the very nice dac... at least not until I am finally able to purchase the Aurender streamer.

2. Buy a very nice all in one SACD/CD player of the likes of EMM, Playback Designs, Esoteric, etc. Then at some point into the future when I can afford to purchase a very nice Aurender... run that into the dac section of the SACD/CD player. I’m thinking that way I would have really great sound right off the bat for playing my existing CD’s and maybe pick up the occasional SACD’s as well as have great sound in the future when I can get the streamer?

I guess I don’t really know how much importance the transport would play in the sound reproduction. My hunch is that it has an important role. Much like that of the which the turntable does in a vinyl rig.

Would anyone have any thoughts to share?

Yes, I also agree that I want a very musical sounding dac section/player. Before I had my strokes, I played my cello in classical venues and my tenor and bass trombones in jazz venues.  If I wasn't performing, I was still attending live acoustical music events a few nights a week, so I am very much interested in musical sound vs the overly hyper detailed/etched type of sound.

I have a dealer about 1.5 hours away from me that has all of the top Audio Research gear and  when paired with the right source and speakers, it certainly does sound very nice 

Best wishes,

Don

I just wanted to take a quick moment to say "THANK YOU" to everyone for all of your help by sharing your thoughts, experiences, and guidance with me as I tried to decipher which direction to go and which steps to take in the effort of improving the digital side of my music system.  I wanted to give a quick update as to where I am currently at.

I had a busy day yesterday! I was able to purchase an Acoustic Zen Absolute Copper 75 Ohm RCA 1.5 meter digital cable. I then went on to purchased a new LTA Aero Dac from Nicholas at LTA! I will start out utilizing my vintage Rotel 955AX CD Player as the transport - Acoustic Zen Absolute Copper via the Coax output into the Aero Dac.

It is my hope that I will hear a tremendous improvement of sound via the Aero Dac over that of the Rotel’s internal multibit dac. If the Rotel proves to be sufficient, then over time, I will continue to save more money to put towards a high end streamer. If the Rotel isn’t allowing the Aero to shine, then I think I will investigate a better dedicated transport to replace the Rotel; and then do the streamer down the road further.

I would also like to take a quick moment to say that Nicholas from LTA is a true gentleman! I had a very nice email string with him. He replied to each of my emails within minutes! He was very nice and answered all of my questions and was extremely helpful to me. It was a true pleasure corresponding with him and he really made me feel appreciated and valued.

A company may have a great product, but if it is without having people who truly care about their customers... then it kinda falls flat with me. I can honestly say that Nicholas at LTA, truly cares about his customers and has a passion for what they are doing. That right there pushed me over the top to want to buy the LTA Aero! I can’t wait to receive it and install it into my system to hear what it can do!

Thanks again to everyone who has contributed to this forum thread. This is a great community to be associated with 

Best wishes to you all,

Don