SACD 2 channel vs Redbook 2 Channel

I have never heard a redbook version sound better than the sacd version but I don't listen to old dead guys either.

For those that want to hear what sacd is all about, check out DSOTM, Steve Earles Guitar Town, Allison Krauss Live or Joe Satrianis Strange Beautiful Music for starters.
Compare any of these to there redbook version on even a midfi setup and you will have your answer.
I have heard redbook and sacd versions of these on several 500.00 players,a 2k player and several modified players that cost even more.
One thing remains consistent, and that is sacd is far more natural sounding whith greater resolution than the redbook versions by a large margin in every case.
This repesents modern music from the 70's,80's and current releases.
After listening to sacd versions and comparing, the redbook versions become coasters in every case.
I just wish they would start releasing new material a bit quicker on the format.

Ben, I have not heard the Stones sacd's so I can't offer any input on those, but the DSOTM sacd sounds much better than any prior redbook release including the mofi version when played on equal players.

Are you saying that the DSOTM sacd played on a cheap Sony sounds only slightly better than the other layer played back on a hi end redbook player?.... if so, then that about says it all about which is superior.

I have some sacd's such as Bob Dylans Blood on the Tracks that sound better than the redbook version but not to the degree that you will find on other releases.
This is the original recordings limits that you hear whith any format.

Some people have raved about The Eagles Hotel California dvd-a and I find it to not only sound rolled off, but also sounds like some of the frequencys have been sucked right out of the recording.
I actually prefer the dcc redbook version.

The point I am trying to make is, we hear what we hear but any fair comparison should be done on equal gear imo.

When I compare redbook to sacd, I do not compare sacd played back on a hi end player to a 500.00 redbook player but rather something more equal in price.

Ben, here are two modders whithin shouting distance of you and they both mod the 963sa plus many other sacd players.
www.audiocom-uk.com
www.vacuumstate.com

Acoustic Reality now mods the 963sa also.
Look under whats new at www.acousticreality.com

Industry reports show strong sales of SACD players whith the European installed base having doubled from 1 million to 2 million in the last 8 months.
There are now more than 65 SACD models from 28 manufactuers available.
Several other manufactuers are introducing sacd models before the end of the year.
Super Audio players have exceeded DVD-A by a 4 to 1 margin.

This info is available at www.superaudio-cd.com

If these are the European #'s were supposedly SACD is not popular [according to some in this thread] then just think what the U.S. #'s are.

If there is over 65 sacd models in Europe whith more on the way, then the U.S has at least that many models.

No... I would say that a lot of the dribble posted in this thread is more akin to National Enquier whith no basis in reality whatsoever.

Anyone who claims or thinks that DVD-A is even close in sales......is wrong by a long shot.

BTW..I find DVD-A to sound too sterile as compared to the natural sounding SACD format.

I would love to see some dvd-a #'s from anywhere that back up any claims made in this thread, and whith Warner selling its music division, who will be the major backer of DVD-A besides Merridian?

I believe DVD-A is all but done and the format is a major money loser and the Wall Street Journal is not required to know this...just common sense.

How many hi end dvd-a players are there exactly.....two as far as I know and that says a lot.

Ben, have you listened to an MF,Krell, Linn ect hi end sacd player?

You are not the only one in this thread using the worldwide approach to peddle your opinion.
It just so happens that worldwide includes Europe and that is what the sales data article is about.

I am sure you are right about the total including el cheapo players but the total for dvd-a is made up of 99.8% el cheapo players and still SACD has outsold dvd-a players 4 to 1 in Europe.
If I meant Ben only, I would single you out.

I do not expect SACD to be a dominant format whith so much free music available to those who just want music and quality be dammed.

I also think you Ben, should at least hear a few quality sacd players and discs before ever even giving an opinion on the format when comparing an el cheapo SACD player to a hi end redbook player.

Instead, your opinion reads that an el cheapo bottom of the line SACD player does not sound as good to your ears as a very hi end redbook player...therefore the technology is flawed.

http://cgi.stereophile.com/cgi-bin/showvote.cgi?333

Ben, I apoligise as I had forgotten that eventually, you made it clear that your comparisons were done on the cheap Sony and not whith the Ayre.
Others anti SACD posters claim that Sony and Phillips are using inferior Redbook on there SACD players to make the SACD version sound better, yet you say that the redbook version was equal to SACD on a cheap player.
Well....you can't both be right imo.

As far as having to spend 4k or more for decent redbook on a Universal or multi player,I meant to be in the same quality range as your Ayre whith redbook and not an overall rule.
Some are happy whith 2k or less multi player redbook sonics and some are not.
There are cheaper players such as the Phillips 963sa whith full mods that are wonderful SACD and redbook players that compete whith or beat some hi end universal players or multi players for 11-1200.00 total investment for people not wanting to spend 4k or more.

I no that there are dozens of the modified Phillps 963sa's out ther but you never see one for sale.
For those wanting quality SACD and redbook on the cheap. I highly reccomend it.
For those that want great redbook and SACD whithout mods, your going to need to spend some bucks imo.
Another option is a stock player that does SACD well along whith a dac for redbook.

All of the above is just IMHO as I am sure that others will disagree whith some or all of it.

Results from the Stereophool poll listed above.

Have you bought one or both of the high-rez audio formats?

I've got a universal player 15%
I've got a DVD-A player 4%
I've got a SACD player 32%
Don't have either but will soon 12%
Don't have either and don't care 34%

It is very interesting that 51% have some form of hi-rez in there systym.
It is also very interesting that the SACD format has around an 8.5 to 1 advantage over DVD-A among audiophools in this poll.

Most audiophools do not buy cheap multi players but rather mid fi to hi end so the "Got SACD free whith my 200.00 dvd player" argument to boost the SACD sales #'s does not apply here.

I also believe that among the 34% that don't care are a lot of die hard vinyl fans that could care less about any digital format.
This makes the #'s in the poll seem even more crystal clear that among audiophools, SACD has become the hi-rez format of choice.

The poll results closely match everything I have read on several forums since hi-rez arrived.

FYI...I did not vote in the poll.