Room correcting subwoofer for music?

In retrospect, I guess Toetapfactor is right.

You asked about the difference between room corrected vs non-room corrected subs for a music and (after mentioning budget issues as a "heads up"), I foolishly outlined a way to directly compare the 2 approaches in your home with a choice of components all offered on a money back basis. What was I thinking?

Just forget all that "nonsense"...and go with REL or JL.

Just for the record, all the JLs feature their proprietary "ARO" DRC system. To my knowledge, REL doesn't offer any DRC type subwoofers. So, suggesting that you pick one or the other without further explanation doesn't really address your question about the differences between the approaches. Unless, of course, the implication is that they sound the same...which is very, very bad advice, indeed.

Good luck with the floorstanders.

Marty

Depending on your budget, you might want to try the following approach:

App. $1500 buys a pair of 12" Rythmik or SVS subs. I know the Rythmiks are awfully good for music (I use 'em) and suspect that the SVS are, as well (feedback from apparently reliable sources and great test results).

$450 buys a Velodyne SMS-1 controller. Use the RTA function on the SMS-1 to optimize placement of the 2 subs. Then, A-B the DRC function to see/hear the difference in bass response between straight subs and DRC subs. If you're impressed, stick with the DRC unit. If not, it's returnable (if you buy it from AudioAdvisor.com, anyway). Even if you end up returning the SMS (and IME, I tend to doubt that) you'll have had the aid of the RTA in optimizing subwoofer placement.

I believe that the SVS subs, the Rythmik subs, the Velo SMS-1 and the SVS/Audyssey DRC units are all available direct with a money back policy. You get to learn with the house's money - except for return shipping.

I'd only add that you need an x-over ahead of the SVS/Audyssey unit. The NHT x-2 x-over is $300, and you should note that the SVS/Audyssey is a greater initial layout ($700 or $800 IIRC).

I'd add that you might want an external x-over with the Velo unit, too (the internal low pass on the SMS-1 isn't my cup of tea), so you might budget accordingly.

Bottom line: $1500 buys a pair of excellent subs. Using 2 allows for optimizing placement to smooth bass response. An SMS-1 (on money back terms) at $450, will allow you to:

A) Optimize placement of the subs for non-DRC use and
B) Compare optimized non-DRC subs with optmized DRC subs

with no additional dollars at risk (besides shipping).

You might end up spending another $300 - $700, if you want an external x-over or the SVS/Audyssey unit with an external crossover.

You're in the $2k to $2.7K range, so it's definitely not spare change, but IMHO you're talking about pretty extraodinary bass performance options here.

Good Luck

Marty

One quick correction:

I said that the low pass function on the SMS-1 isn't my cup of tea. The low pass (or highcut) for the woofer is actually great. It's the low cut for the mains that doesn't sound great to me (it's also kinda bare-bones with no adjustability).

Marty

Scott,

Yes.

Unless you use DRC, in which case the answer is "maybe".

One sub, properly placed will usually produce much smoother bass response than a full range speaker in free space. There may be other issues with this approach(integration, for one) that, for some people, impose too steep a price to pay for this benefit.

Two (or more) properly placed subs will virtually always produce much smoother bass response than a single sub. The integration issues with your main speakers may well still exist.

OTOH, properly implemented DRC will address both FR and integration. It very effectively smooths the response of a single sub at your listening position, so a single sub w/DRC may be enough to address the FR smoothing issues. And....

My Velo SMS-1 sub controller includes RTA which displays the on-axis FR at the listening position on a video monitor. This has 2 benefits. It makes placing sub(s) much easier. That is, you can use the SMS-1 just as a set-up aid to determine optimum position for your sub(s) by looking at the FR readout. Trust me, this is easier and faster that testing trial and error by ear. If you must, you can even use the RTA to "put you in the ballpark" and then further tweak by ear.

And, the bonus...

The flexible low pass x-over in the SMS-1, coupled with the RTA readout and Parametric EQ allows for a lot of flexibility in fine tuning the "hand-off" at the x-over frequency. (IMHO) This can allow for a seamless, inaudible (again, IMHO) x-over from subs to mains. It's quite a bit of work, but (yet again, IMHO) definitely worth it.

The more expensive SVS/Audyssey unit is automatic (easier), but I'm not sure that you can use it as a placement aid and then remove it. To do that, you need a visual display of the uncorrected FR and I'm not sure that this unit has that capability. Perhaps someone else out there knows for sure.

I use both 2 subs and the SMS-1 and get great results. This approach is not necessarily for everybody, but EVERYBODY (hearing impaired excepted, I suppose) will instantly hear the difference between an uncorrected sub and a DRC sub in almost any room (anechoic chamber excepted). I wouldn't live without it. YMMV.

Marty

Scott,

1) FR = frequency response.

2) Can't answer the budget question (it's personal taste), but I will say that a 12" Rythmik or SVS sub with SMS-1 will run $1200, and I think that's money well spent. Some, like Bob, might point out that the full range Audyssey found on many pre-pros and HTRs is a better value. I wouldn't argue, but I chose a different route.

3) Continue to take advice from Bob, he is among the most informed contributers here. My current system was largely constructed around his input.

Marty

Based on a conversation some time ago with the tech guys at Lyngdorf, the TacT and Lyngdorf systems differ significantly from each other:

TacT is a more traditional DRC that measures output with a mic and EQs the input to produce a corrected flat (or a "target" curve) result. Speaker FR deviations and room FR deviations are both EQ'd.

Lyngdorf is designed to look for room induced anaomalies only. I never got a specific explanation of how the algorythms make the determination, but Lyndorf is supposed to correct to the speaker's "native response" rather than flat or targeted.

Since Tact sells direct and Lygdorf has only a handful of dealers, it's hard to hear either, much less compare the two. But it would be great to get some feedback on these two DRC systems.

Marty