Rock: well recorded bass...60s/70s


whatz up with bass on most rock recordings? is it that hard to get a decent bass sound? must be...as most bass sounds are either a)muddy or b)razor thin...however the bass I found on Santana Abraxas is outstanding though...very dimensional...with a reach out and touch quality...any other recordings that might have this quality?
phasecorrect

Showing 8 responses by bongofury

Warren Zevon (first three albums)
James Taylor (first two)
The Faces
James Brown (like Sex Machine)
Al Green
Dusty Springfield
Pink Floyd (especially Dark Side)
The Clash (London Calling)
Goldenear

Must be your copy. I must have "hot wax" because my vintage Faces albums sound great. As a rule, all Glynn John produced albums have very good bass reproduction. It was the way he miced the room using overhead placement. Look at his work with The Who's Who's Next, the debut Eagles album and the Rolling Stone's Sticky Fingers--all have landmark bass tracks. His "A Wink is as Good as a Nod" by the Faces sounds terrific on my stereo.

PS: Rhino re-released almost their entire output on a 4 CD box set four years ago. They went in and remastered quite a bit of the source material. It is not as dynamic a source as compared to the original vinyl I have but is cleanly mastered. I use ATC speakers which are very precise and the bass on both vinyl and CD sounds great when played loud on my system.
Goldenear

There can be a great deal of sonic differences between albums in the 60s and 70s. It can be due to the press run (some were in the millions), the amount of time spent in the album press (45 seconds produces an even surface), the quality of the stamper used (master tape or second generation plate), and the type of vinyl used (there were over 13 kinds of pellets used). There are numerous sites on the internet that track, grade and score albums by their quality based on serial numbers and first versus later pressings. I can reference Tom Port at Better Records who has made a living around this.
Goldenear

You are making sense.

First, you could go to a second hand store and buy 30 copies of the same title, say by the Stones. You could find original issues on both side of the Atlantic, later issues (look for bar coded covers) and current reissues. All are being put out to the buying public as the real deal sonically. You will actually find that that some are "dead" sounding, some lack high end, some lack bass, some are "smeared sounding" in the vocals, and in the rare cases, some approximate "master tape" sound. The variation is in the manufacturing process. Many labels were hampered by poor quality control--their policy was to have the consumer simply return and exchange these at the point of purchase. The flucuations were due to heat and humidity in the plant on a given day, the press run, and the actual stampers used. Remember, vinyl was molded into place.

Some albums suffer from the source material. For example, all Stones albums from the US and Japan used 2nd Generation "stampers" while the master stampers were in the UK at the time. If you have the right system, you can hear subtle differences. The record labels did not do a very good job at maintaining control of the master tapes. Why many CDs sound terrible, is that the original material was lost and the transfer was made off of "back up" copies. I have been in the Live Music space for 30 years and I hear this complaint constantly from the veteran bands. That may be why your America album as a reissue sounds bad.

I agree that usually sound is more impacted by the dynamics of the room, and not the content. Speaker placement and sound enhancing room treatments can easily address and improve sonic performance in the tens of percentage gain. Also, properly alligning your tone arm and needle, making sure you have stable cabling between components. I use active speakers, which are internally amped, so I have less inefficiencies due to cabling. You may want to look at companies like ATC and Bryston who make simple, bomb proof gear.
PS: I sometimes laugh at vinyl purists versus digital. It was an imperfect medium at best. When you do stumble on the rare records that are quiet and have master tape sound, they are pure magic. But you will have to shoot-out a lot of dead wax to get at the gems. I find that LA and Seattle has an insane number of stores containing well-priced vintage vinyl that you can do this against. Figure $60 for 30 records; you will find a few of the great ones. Better use of money, versus $60 buying two heavy vinyl reissues. Estate and garage sales are even better to buy whole collections of old stuff.
PDN And Goldenear

Wait til you hear the new 10 disc Neil Young in Blu Ray. Better quality digital sound is coming.
Fightingwords

Really like your addition to the thread. Bass reproduction from a playback and recording perspective was in its earliest stages. With that said,there were some great producers who knew how to record the bass. Ken Scott and Glynn Johns come to mind.