Great review. Thanks for the effort. |
Elberoth2: Great question! The Tenor Hybrid's are truly amazing. The darTZeel actually has a higher level of clarity and are less finicky (no tubes). The darTZeel is the purist sounding amplifier I have ever heard. The Tenor's have a bit more power.
Both represent the finest I have heard. |
Cinematic_systems: I know you are a dealer and you should disclose this in your posting. It is obvious you have a hard on for Jena Labs, although the system you have listed does not appear to be of anything worth using Jena Labs cables on.
You could only hope to ever have a system that approximates the sound that Hooper has.
Mind your manners! |
Cinematic_systems: You, according to one of the "witnesses" (you know the one) says you are a complete lunatic and I should not even waste my time answering you. Your complete lack of subjectivity and your history of bashing absolutely everything everyone here owns shows how small and jealous a person you are.
The witness you mention happened to purchase an entire set of the Jena Labs and feels there is absolutely no smearing or coloration. He felt they were incredibly neutral while having body and extension such as one would hear in live music.
In terms of Rick Gardner's system, you are showing your completely abusive and naive side. To make a statment that his system is "horrendous" when you have never heard it is "horrendously" irresponsible and childish.
Your opinions hold no validity with me and those who see through your nonsence.
Sean: You must be kidding. Haven't we been down this road before? I really think you should rescind your statements and let sleeping dogs lay. |
Sean: You are a troll of the worst kind. I do not have the time or energy to respond point by pooint, but you are making another personal attack on me regardless of my request to stop.
I am going to get some sleep and if I have nothing better to do tomorrow, I will respond.
Get a life you sorry excuse for a man. |
John (Jafox): What Audiogon does here is beyond any of our control. We can make our suggestions, but ultimately the decision is their's. This has been talked about for years and I have no issue with disclosure. I agree that it could be misleading for someone in the industry coming here under an alias and push products they produce or sell. I have been here for 6 years. I am certainly one of the early users of this site and I started as a user and have since become a distributor and dealer. Most people know who I am and it would take very little effort to discover that I am a dealer and distributor. Also, think about how many dealers or distibutors have multiple accounts here. I know of one who has uses this slimy tactic quite a bit.
I have been an audiophile for 45 years. I was born into this and it has always been my passion. I would also say that no one is perfect. When it is proper for me to disclose my affiliation, I always attempt to do so. Sometimes I might forget. In this thread, there was no need for me to disclose that info. I was thanking Hooper for taking the time to post a review which I do with anyone when they take the time to state their experience. I do this regardless of whether I am a dealer or distributor for the product. If I read a review I thank the person.
I would also like to add that Hooper is not a professional reviewer. He gave a brief history of what he knew about the manufactirer, which I think was informative, as well as a description of the physical nature of the amplifier. He also spoke to what he felt might be potential drawbacks with the amplifier. If you want more, ask him. :)
Rgcards: My history with Sean is quite well publicized here. Sean has a history of tageting me and got spanked for it in the past. It is unproductive and abusive. He talks about a "conspiricy theory" and the only "conspiricy" is Sean conspiring against me. He needs to get a life... really Sean, "Get a Life!"
Sean asserts that the amplifier has a sound that he can tell us about based on "design parameters" and "quality of parts used" without his ever hearing. This is absurd. To allege that he has that ability is a complete lie. He knows nothing about what "quality parts" are in the amplifier and to mislead users that he has this talent that no one else in the world has is a joke.
Sean also suggests that Hooper was hiding something and questions his credibility just to take a dig at me. This is childish and insulting. To suggest that I setup this review is ridiculous and that someone like Hooper would participate in such a sham is irresponsible.
You say you recognized C_s's status right away, but having possibly more experience here than you do, the moniker does not always mean anything. For example one might think that Fbhifi or Simplicitymusic are affiliated because of their names, but they are not. I do not know that he has ever disclosed his status here and he never has anything positive to say about anything.
Also, I do not restrict my posts to my equipment 90% of the time. I just browsed through my responses to threads and you are exagerating a great deal. Please take a look.
Do not get me wrong, I appreciate your input and always like to be reminded if I am out of line, I just do not see it here. |
Jafox: John, great experience. I have always been a fan of Ken Steven's amplifiers and preamplifiers. He over builds everything he sells and there is a lot to say about that. My only complaint with Ken is if you get him on the phone, plan on being on for hours. He loves to talk :) |
Dbk: The VR9 while having it's sub powered, still has it's woofers driven by the same amplifier as the mids and tweets. No different than with the VR7SE's. Granted the woofers in the VR7's have to go down deeper, but the darTZeel will have no issue driving the VR7SE. |
Cinematic_Systems: Mike's room does not "suck out" frequencies below 30Hz. His room has too much volume for the speakers to properly pressurize at those frequencies.
I have tried CAT JL-1 LE's on the Kharma Midi's as well as other high current, high power tube and solid-state amplifiers. In all cases the Midi-Exquisites, while doing a good job micro-dynamically do not excel in the area of macro-dynamics. They are a speaker designed for a small to medium-small room, and are not meant to play the way you describe. There is no speaker in the Kharma line that can compare in that area to the Von Schweikert speakers. This is the main reason I have switched to the VSA line. They do everything well.
I also believe you might be exaggerating when you say you were playing the Midi's "with absolute clarity and impressive drive at 110dB". The type of music you speak of, by nature, is dynamically compressed and the temptation is to keep playing it louder until you feel like there is more dynamics which, of course, there is not.
Since I have heard most of the ATC's as well as Meridian equipment, I would say that either you have a pretty bad ear or you sell those products, which you have not disclosed. The system you speak of has none of the transparency, soundstaging, clarity or tonality that the Kharma speakers are famous for. The ATC's do indeed better the Kharma's in macro-dynamics. Since you have never heard the Von Schweikert VR9SE's, you are not in a position to judge.
You anwered your own question. Those who have owned the Kharma/Tenor combination and now own the Von Schweikert/darTZeel combo, through their "subjectivity" and "personal taste", came to the conclusion that the latter bettered their previous system. It has nothing to do with how good the Kharma/Tenor combination is "in the first place". It is certainly one of the finest combinations I have ever heard and outside of the VSA/darTZeel combo, I have not heard better. This is also not to say that the combination of the VSA and Tenor amplifiers or the Kharma and darTZeel amplifier is not outstanding. |
Rumney510: I happen to have a pair of ML2's right now and I would say the ML2's are quite a bit darker and not as open. They are both dead quiet, but the clarity of the darTZeel is on an entirely different level.
Although I prefer the VSA/darTZeel combo, the VSA/LAMM combo is no slouch. |
Sirspeedy: What you seem to misundersatand is that the Von Schweikerts have higer clarity, greater musicality and real world foundation to the music (which the Kharma's do not do very well), while going down to 15 Hz flat in-room. The do it effortlessly and with extreme refinement.
If you are in NY for the show in April at the Hilton, please come by and listen. We will have the VR9SE's and the darTZeel amplifiers. It should be fun. |
Mikelavigne: I do not necessarily agree that a direct comparison has to been done. I do not believe that the systems need to be in the same room at the same time for a conclusion to be made. This is not to say that the room is not extremely critical. However, if everything else is constant, it should be easy to tell the differences.
I have had the Kharma Exquisite 1a Extended Reference Enigma, Midi Exquisite 1a Diamond Enigma, Midi Grand Ceramique Enigma, 3.2 Ceramique Enigma Reference Monitor and have listened to them with the same exact equipment and cabling as I have with the VR9SE's and I have no doubt that the Von Schweikert VR9SE's complete a package that the Kharma's do not. As far as the VR9SE's disappearing like the Kharma's, they do. They also, in my opinion, have a larger soundstage front to back, left to right and have much greater resolution, control and depth in the bass. As far as midrange, I find that there is a more natural midrange in the VR9SE's, but the Kharma certainly is no slouch in this area. Prior to hearing the Von Schweikert's, I had not heard better than the Kharma's other than a prototype speaker a local company is building. Another area where the VR9SE's better the Kharma is in the highs. Even compared with the diamond tweeter, the VR9SE's tweeter/super tweeter offer greater realism with more air on top.
Certainly Hooper and Mes share my experience and have had both Kharma and Von Schweikert speakers in the same room with the same equipment.
I have to say that I re-read this thread and do not see where anyone tried to "break down the Kharma into pieces". I believe everyone here acknowledges how special the Kharma line of speakers are. I just think that the few people who have had both prefer the Von Schweikert's. They really do most of the same things, but where the Kharma stops, the Von Schweikert goes further. |
Howie: Cinematic_Systems is attempting to create controversy and be obnoxious. This is his history. He does not know what he is talking about and is not worth your time and effort. |
Stenersr: Your personal experience with C_S is not really the point here. I have no doubt that in a personal relationship he might be entirely different. Especially if he is trying to make a sale. If you look at his past posts he has a real history of attacking everything and usually provides nothing positive. Most people are here to share their experiences with equipment. That I respect. When someone denegrades equipment all the time, that is obnoxious and controversial. Some people feel "God like" when they are typing on a keyboard. As a matter of fact, he has been described to me as a complete lunatic who I should not waste my time with by a mutual friend of ours.
You are an engineer and hence measurements are important to you and I completely understand that. Sean and C_S throw measurements around as if those are the only reasons to buy equipment. How many times do we read a review where the measurements were poor but the reviewer loved the product, or the measurements were outstanding and the sound was not to the liking of the reviewer? Bob, would you buy something just because it measured great without ever listening to it? Or, would you buy something that you heard that sounded great without ever reading how the measured?
My basis for responding to C_S was that he was taking pot shots at Hooper and his system. He talked about the Jena Labs cables as if he had them in his system many times, which to my understanding, he did not. He and Sean both make irresponsible comments about "stranded cables". C_S states; "Smearing the leading edge, it's an old cable tactic, perfect for overly bright edgy audiophile systems." Sean states; "Any multi-strand braided cable is going to have some amount of smearing to it".
To imagine that a cable capable of extending from DC out to beyond 30 Mhz could smear frequencies that low in the bandwidth is ludicrous. The cables "measure" brilliantly. There are cables that, through the use of resistors, roll off certain frequencies, but these resistors do not exist in Jena Labs cables. I have never heard Jena Labs cables "smear highs". I have used them with 100's of amplifiers, preamplifiers and source equipment. I have had more brands of cables through here than I care to count and cannot ever recall hearing a cable that showed the "old cable tactic" that C_S accuses Jena Labs of using.
C_S and Sean have never heard Hooper's system, nor do they have an idea of the sound that Hooper has. C_S heard the prototype darTZeel amplifier in a show with equipment he probably did not know and came to a conclusion on the product. It is no better than walking into a room at a show and listening to a system one has never heard and saying, "Wow, those power cords sound great, but the speakers are bad".
Sean makes statements about what the amplifier sounds like, without ever hearing it based on what he read somewhere that said something about "quality of parts used" without actually mentioning what those parts are and what he percieves the "design parameters" to sound like.
Sean also mentions:
"There are design aspects of the VR 9's that i really like ( sealed cabinets ), but for the money involved, i'm thinking that they could have made some very simple yet sonically important changes to them. The use of Solen caps instead of something a little higher grade, the 80 Hz crossover frequency for the single subwoofer driver, which is mounted on the rear of the cabinet, etc... are all things that i would have done differently."
Sean how many speakers have you built? Any critically acclaimed? Who are you to pass judgement on someone like Albert Von Schweikert and his design without ever listening? Have you heard the speaker? Again, you attempt to show everyone how much you know and try to impress them with capacitor name dropping or repeat something you read somewhere. You did this with the darTZeel amplifier, Jena Labs cables and know the Von Schweikert VR9SE's. Solen caps are excellent in the right application. Maybe the best around. In other applications, maybe there are better choices. Cost of parts had absolutley no influence on what was used in the VR9SE's. This was a "no holds barred", "cost no object" design. The fact that there is a Solen cap in the speaker reflects that it was the best capacitor for the use it was intended. There are also other much more expensive caps used in different areas. It only depends on what sounded best.
Attacking me through Mike Lavigne's post and impuning his credibility, shows how desperate you are with your "conspiracy theory".
Sean, if you have any direct experience with any of the equipment mentioned in this thread, share it. That would be productive and worthwhile. But, constantly targeting me and those who have dealt with me is getting tiresome and is highly unproductive. Most of us are adults here. I do not believe anyone voted you "defender of all". Audiogon has moderators to chime in when they feel it necessary. As I stated earlier... get a life! |
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The darTZeel in "Hi" impedance mode will easily handle the Merlins. I have heard them driven quite well with much less power.
The only time impedance is an issue for the darTZeel is if the speaker drops below 2.9 ohms. If so, the amplifier needs to be set to "low" impedance mode and there would be no issue. |
Dazzdax & Hooper: darTZeel is an anagram for Deletraz. Hervé's last name. :)
Hooper to correct you, due to your owning two amplifiers, you would be twice as biased as most. :) |
Henryk: You have a lot going on. The Kharma speakers are wonderful. Adding the diamond tweeters, at least here in the US, costs about $20k US. I really think if you are going to spend that kind of money and stay with Kharma, you should look at the Midi Exquisite. The Midi is designed for a small to medium sized room. If you want delve into other speakers, I am very biased toward the Von Schweikert's. That is why I sell them. That being said, the VR7's also are a big speaker. And if your room is very small, it may be a bit much. You might consider the Von Schweikert DB99 MK2. |
