Sean: I am indeed a longtime customer and friend of Mr. Tinn's. I'm actually quite proud of that association. And there was no "lack of willingness" to divulge which dealer I was working with. I simply didn't think it appropriate to bring Mr. Tinn any further into this thread. One more thing: This thread was set up by ME, not Mr. Tinn.
There's no conspiracy going on. I chose to review the DarTZeel and start this thread because I was sufficiently impressed with it and thought it should be brought to the attention of more people. My review, and the start of the thread, were established WELL before the Stereophile review. Just check the dates.
You're right about the amp not being ideal for tough loads. I brought that up in my review. But it doesn't mean that it is completely useless with anything but 8-ohm loads. Quite the contrary. I've heard it drive several 4-ohm speakers with ease. But there's no doubt that the amp is more comfortable with lighter loads. I own the Von Scweikert VR-9s, which are 96dB efficient, and my DarTZeels mate incredibly well with them. I never hear any sense of strain or breakup, even when I crank it.
By the way, where did you get your measurements from? I couldn't find any. Even if the amp does measure less than spectacularly, IMHO that means little in the end. Look at all the $299 Sony receivers that, technically, measure well but that suck sonically in the context of a high-end system. Numerous companies, particularly WAVAC, sell products that measure abysmally, yet apparently there's something about the sound quality that keeps customers willing to shell out $50,000-$100,000 for them.
If you're so inclined, try and listen to the DarTZeel with a reasonable load and an open mind, and you may well change your tune. The amp isn't for everyone, to be sure, but for those who've heard it and bought it, like me, it represents the peak of their amplifier experience. |
Cinematic:
A personal friend of mine who's an audio dealer out west helped me design the system. I wanted a setup that could compete with the very best of the best, and he helped me achieve it. I'm more crtical of the system than anyone, but everyone who's heard it has come away pretty impressed.
I tried several amps before settling on the DarTZeels: Parasound JC-1s, Tenor 300s, Classe Omega, to name a few. All of those amps have standout characteristics, but none sounded as balanced, pure, and transparent as the DarTZeel. Mated to the right speaker load, they are as good as I've heard.
The Jena cables work perfectly in my system. I don't hear any smearing whatsoever. In fact, they're the best cables I've ever had in my room. They don't have the WOW factor of some elite cables (Valhalla, Transparent Opus. etc.), but I think they're one of the best available, at any price. I now have the VR-9s (the VR-4 Jr's were loaners), and the synergy between speaker and cable is stunning. The amount of information this combo extracts from a recording is really amazing.
By the way, you mentioned that my system was unusual in conception. How so? I'd be curious to know.
Hope this helped. |
TomRyan:
By "modest" power, I was implying in comparison to all the 500W-1,000W bruisers out there. In comparison to those amps, I'd call the DarTZeel's output modest. Wouldn't you?
As for speaker matching, I think I may have overstated the point in my review. The Dart has an internal switch that allows toggling berween high and low impedance operation. I've since heard the amp on several low-impedance speakers (with the LI switch on), and the amp had NO problem driving the speakers. |
Cinematic: I'm not the most tech-savvy person in the world, so I won't get into a technical discussion about the Jena cables, but I will share my experience. I listened to A LOT of cables before coming to the decision to buy the Jena Dreamdancers: several Siltechs, Transparent Opus, MIT, Cardas, AudioQuest DBS, Wireworld, Tara, and (not coincidentally) the Analysis Plus Gold. Each had their strengths and weaknesses, and I was actually leaning toward the AP Gold. Then JTinn sent me a Dreamdancer interconnect. After several days of listening, I came to the conclusion that the Dreamdancers were clearly the superior cable: sheer resolution, dynamics, naturalness, etc. I then wired up my entire system with Dreamdancer cable, and I haven't looked back. I hear none of the smearing you described above; in fact, they are a very synergistic match with my Von Schweikerts and DarTZeels. At any rate, that's MY experience. Sorry they didn't work for you. |
Afox: You're absolutely right--neither my review nor the Stereophile piece compared the DarTZeel to other amps. In my case, I just wanted to write a quick, dirty review that would let people know how good the amp is. I was too lazy to spend more than an hour at the keyboard. But I actually did compare it to several amps: a Pass XA-160, Tenor 75, and Tenor 300 hybrids. Without going into vivid detail (my hands are getting tired), the DarTZeel pretty easily bested the Pass in almost every area; it had much more clarity and dynamic punch than the Tenor 75, especially when the volume was turned up; and against the 300s, it was a closer race, but the Dart was faster coming on and off transients, it was more transparent, and, despite the fact that the 300s have tubes, it was smoother and warmer overall. That's pretty much all I can offer about comparisons. Maybe a professional publication will get around to it one day. |
Jafox:
Just let me know what you want to know, and I'll try to answer as best I can. Oh, and the price has just risen to TWO Dove Bars. And maybe some Coldstone Creamery ice cream . . . . Greedy bastard, ain't I? :) |
Jafox:
Just like Marlan Brando in "The Godfather," I grant you this information now, but one day I might call on you for a favor. Don't worry; it'll be small--a pint of Guiness if I ever make it to the Minneapolis area. :)
The original intent was to pair the Tenor 300s with my Kharma Midi-Exquisites. That pairing didn't turn out very well; I got swayed by all the hype and bought the Kharmas sight unseen. Big mistake. The Kharmas were absolutely lifeless and undynamic. The 300W of the Tenors did something to jumpstart them, but not nearly what I expected. At the time, I thought the problem was the amp--and the Tenors had been acting up (blown tubes, bad balanced output, etc.)--so I got a pair of DartZeels in for audition. When I hooked them up to the Midis, the result was much the same as with the Tenors: some dynamics, but largely lifeless.
It was then that I suspected that the problem was not the amp, but the speaker. To confirm this, I pulled out my Von Schweikert VR-4 HSEs, which were doing duty in a two-channel home theatre system. BAM! With either amp, the speaker literally exploded to life. I saw the Kharma sweating in the corner; it knew its days were numbered. Now that I had a suitable speaker to judge the amps with, I was on my way. Over several days of comparing, I came to a few general conclusions: (a) The DarTZeel was every bit the match dynamically for the Tenors, despite a 200W disadvantage. And I thougt those dynamics flowed effortlessly. (b) The DarTZeel had a smoother, more natural presentation, without glossing over any low-level detail. (c) Speaking of detail, the DarTZeel clearly revealed more information, doing it absolutely effortlessly. The transparency of this thing is amazing. (d) Reliability. Here's where the DarT pulls away. The NHB-108 is handbuilt to ridiculously high standards. (That said, one amp had a loose fuse rolling around inside--a refugee from the construction process--but seeing that it wasn't doing any harm, I left it in rather than ship the whole amp back to Switzerland.)
The Tenor isn't shabbily constructed either--it's actually rather beautiful--but the DarTZeel is built like it could withstand a direct hit from a Scud missle. To say that it's built like a fine Swiss watch would be an understatement. The attention to detail throughout is staggering.
I hope this answers most, if not all, of your questions. BTW, those JL-3s of yours are sweet amps. I heard them in New York a couple of years ago. Definitely worth a little fiduciary recklessness! |
Mike:
Like the master tactician I am, I scoped out A-gon for a while first, looking for weak points and hot spots. I decided to focus my efforts on the discussion forums--which are generally more unstable than an African country. Then, like a (dead) cobra, I struck. This thread alone has bagged me at least one outright insult and several subtle digs. When you combine that with the I-Chip thread I started on AA, I'm having a banner year so far.
So, how are those Kharmas? The Tenors drive them very well--I remember when I had them in my system, they drove the Midi-Ex's pretty easily and had a lot of headroom. |
SirSpeedy:
Thanks for the very nice compliment. I wish I could say I got it right the first time, but it's taken me many years (and many dollars) to decide on what kind of sound I liked and what components would best deliver that sound. Having a great, trustworthy dealer is a big advantage. I agree that a lot of today's most expensive gear ultimately disappoints. Marketing has a huge influence. In addition, audiophiles, by nature, are attracted to the biggest and best, which often means the most expensive. Manufacturers know this, and slap ridiculous pricetags on gear that's clearly not worth it, fully knowing that price and "exclusivity" will attract enough buyers. Usually they're right. I'm not sure how the DarTZeel compares with the Rowland 8 or 9. I've never owned Rowland gear, but I've heard very good things about their stuff. Good luck with your system! |
Wow! A lot has gone on since I last posted. First off, when I said that the Midi Exquisites were lifeless, the implication was that I meant IN MY ROOM and IN MY EXPERIENCE. Everyone has different experiences. I listen to primarily rock, and IMHO a Kharma isn't meant for that kind of music. It took me many thousands of dollars to find that out. It can handle it--on certain recordings very well--but I don't think it was designed or voiced with that type of music in mind. I shouldn't have used the term "lifeless," as it's not totally accurate. The speaker has very good dynamics in general--but not when compared to the VR-9. Mike L. will discover that for himself when he gets his 9s sometime soon. By the way, these comments refer to the Midi when driven by the Tenor 300s, a pretty muscular amp. Despite the horsepower, I didn't feel I was getting really visceral dynamics. It was too polite, in my estimation--and that just wouldn't work for the type of music I listen to. The DarTZeel really didn't fare any better, and that's when I fully realized that the problem wasn't the amps or the room, but the speaker. The Von Schweikerts have addressed every shortcoming of the Kharma, and then some. I want to reiterate: This is MY experience in MY room, and it's MY opinion. Kharma makes great, beautiful speakers, but they weren't the right match for me. I found something that worked better. Period. And the DarTZeel is a natural match for the higher-end VRs, since those speakers have very high efficiency (the VR-9 is 96dB). Believe me, I've pushed my combo hard, on some demanding material, and the Darts barely break a sweat now. The DarTZeels and VR-9s sound like they were made to work together. I didn't get that same feeling of synergy with the Kharmas. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks, I guess. |
Gladstone:
I've been found out! Yes, indeed, this really was a nefarious plan to see how many outright insults and subtle digs I could elicit in a week-long period. You see, I have something of a sadomasochistic streak. Years of therapy--electroshock, sensory deprivation . . . . But, oh, what was I saying? Right. Well, you've uncovered my scheme. Congratulations. You journalists are a tricky lot. |
Well, I guess it's safe to reenter the thread, since most of the bickering and sniping seems to have stopped. This has been said ad nauseum, but it bears repeating again here: we're in this hobby for one reason and one reason only--to connect with the music in the deepest, most spiritual sort of way. Whether some people prefer Kharma or not, DarTZeel or not, it's not for us to judge. Sound quality is so subjective that, really, NO choice is wrong, provided the person enjoys that equipment. What ruins it, here and on Audio Asylum, is when ego struggles get involved. Person A thinks Von Schweikert speakers are the best on the market; person B thinks Kharmas are. Neither one wants to back down, it soon turns personal, and the potential for truly meaningful discussion is ruined. I truly believe that individual ego destroys at least 25% of threads initiated here and on AA. People either can't let go of their agenda, or they refuse to lose an argument, and soon it turns into a spiraling bicker-fest. It happened here, which is a shame because I wanted this thread to be an amicable forum to discuss the wonderful DarTZeel amplifier. Oh well, I guess I should have expected it. It started out well, though. |
Joperfi:
I wasn't surprised at the bickering and sniping per se; I was kinda shocked at how quickly things degenerated into a dick-swinging contest between certain parties. As for my dealer, what he does is his business. I like, trust, and admire the guy, and unless something goes horribly awry, he'll have my business for a long time. Case closed. |
DBK:
I agree with Gladstone (scary, in't?). The DarTZeel is definitely helped out by the built-in sub of the VR-9. It takes a huge load off the amp's shoulders. I can get the 9 up to some wacky volumes, and it sounds like the amp is using maybe 25% of its power. Of course, the 96dB efficiency of the 9s helps out a lot too.
BTW, I didn't think the 7s had a powered sub. I fact, I'm pretty sure they don't. That would definitely change your purchasing decision. However, the 7s are 92 or 94dB efficient, and have a pretty friendly impedance curve, so a single Dart could handle that load pretty easily. |
Tab110:
From the look of it, any Merlin speaker should be a pretty benign load. The specs listed on their website indicate 89dB efficiency and an 8-ohm nominal impedance, with a minimum of 6.5. The Dart should be able to handle that load pretty easily. But, if I were you, I would call Merlin direct and see what they think. In my experience, Merlins have been somewhat finicky about the gear they're paired with. Hope this helps. |
Hi, Dazzdax:
Great question. I have no clue why Herve calls the company DarTZeel. I'll have to ask him. Or perhaps Jonathan (JTinn) will know. I have heard the A-50V in NYC, but I've never done a direct comparison with the Dart. Personally, I never been a huge fan of the Accuphase sound. It's just a little too warmish for my taste. I like something more transparent and accurate. The Dart is the polar opposite. IMO, it's one of the very best amps on the planet. Then again, how do you really define "best"? Anyway, it's an incredible amp that does everything right, at least to my ears. The dynamics are lightning quick and powerful, especially for a 100-watter. Clarity and transparency are mesmerizing. I've never heard an amp reveal as much information as this one does. But, most of all, it's effortlessly natural and nonfatiguing. When paired with the right gear, you can listen for hours and hours on end. It would probably take a plastic surgeon to remove the smile from your face! It's that good. But I own two, so of course I'm biased. But I've heard a lot of the top contenders out there, both in my home and at shows, and I can say without reservation that the DarTZeel is at the very top of the heap. |
