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Review: Comparison of 5751 Tubes Raytheon, Sylvania, and more Tweak

Category: Accessories

Okay..for those of you who use tube amps (especially by ASL) I have compared the following 5751's. 5751's are military tubes which can be used in place of 12AX7's.

Tubes:
Reference Ei EL84’s
Raytheon 5751
RCA Blackplate 5751
CBS 5751
Arcturus 5751
Sylvania 12AU7
Tung-Sol 5751
G.E. 5693
ITT 7025
Sylvania 5751
Music:

Mahler-Symphony No. 4 by London Philharmonic

This CD is my reference classical cd. It has highs, lows, everything one could want. It seriously tickles my spine when I listen to it.

Eric Clapton- Reptile (HDCD)

This is Eric Clapton’s most recent album (note that I saw it live in concert last year in LA hehehe) It has some male vocals, and plenty of strings. Another great album

Pink Floyd-Echos

This is one of Pink Floyd’s most well-recorded albums. It is basically a sampler/remaster of their work from the 1960s-1990s

David Bowie-The best of the BBC Radio Sessions 1968-1972

This album is a challenge for most systems. A perfect example of great music recorded with not-so-state of the art equipment

Anggun-Snow on the Sahara

A great example of superb female vocals
Motley Crue- Dr. Feelgood

A classic Metal/Rock band

Impressions:

Raytheon 5751
Very sweet, warm vocals. Very open soundstage. With classical, you really feel the vibration of the violin strings. It is very warm and very nice. It really gives a distance sensation. The Music’s presence is really there. I would say this is the best tube for any type of rock music also. It sounds similar to the CBS 5751 with classical and Jazz.

RCA Blackplate
These are probabally the best for Pink Floyd. I hate them for heavy metal though, it sounds muffled. The vocals and highs aren’t really as dynamic as with the Raytheon. Altogether, this is a nice tube for the money. It certainly beats up a lot of others I have experienced.

CBS 5751
This is a very rare gray plate 5751. It sounds extremely deep with classical. It is absolutely fabulous with male vocals. It is quite forgiving of bad recordings also. This is the tube to get it you are a big fan of older jazz recordings. Also note that flutes sound great with this tube. It did however have a slight buzz on the low end. This is one of my favorite tubes because of smoothness it puts out.

Arcturus 5751

This is a nice heavy metal tube, IMO heavy metal seems to be a bit bright, but not at all with this tube. The big con with this one is the soundstage. The bass is the strongest feature with this tube.

Sylvania 12AU7

A bit too soft for my tastes. It sounds a lot like the stock JJ tube, skip it.

Tung-Sol 5751

The most liquid of all the tubes, It lets the highs just roll off. Very low-noise. I am in love with the liquidness of this tube. Not as dynamic as the Raytheon, but superior with female vocals and horns.

G.E. 5693

This tube is a nice all-around performer. Not super-dynamic, and not too smooth or soft. Good buy for the budget tuberoller.

ITT 7025

Despite what nick says about this one, I really do like it. It has superb imaging. It sounds great with strings, and the bass is really there. The sound is very realistic, not too liquid. I’m sure you all know how I prefer realism and accuracy to warmth. This tube is a very solid performer.

Sylvania 5751

Wow, now here is a tube I didn’t expect to be as nice as it is, especially with the gold brand to compete with. This is a great tube, very solid buy. The dynamics are great, and they reproduce the sound very accurately. The imaging is great, I can close my eyes and actually be at the show. Highly Recommended

Here is how I would rank all of these tubes

1st – Raytheon 5751
2nd – Sylvania 5751
3rd – Tung-Sol 5751
4th – ITT 7025
5th – CBS 5751
6th – RCA Blackplate
7th - GE 5693
8th - Arcturus 5751
9th - Sylvania 12AU7

I would recommend all of these tubes except for the last one on the bottom. It really depends on what type of music you listen to.

Associated gear
Hospital Grade Power Cord
Denon DCM-370
Rhino Interconnects
MG Head DT
Sennheiser HD600
timschirmer
nurxhunter
11 posts
 
Nice review of 5751 breed. My coments are from listening on two '5751/12AX7 driver based systems (Sherwood S5000 and CJ-MV-52), as well as in Cal ALpha DAC driving these and ASL KI15 FOX, a SET IA (killer value). Variety of speakers (Celestion SL6Si, VSA-VR3.5, Monitor Audio, Kestrel).

I agree specifically with your notes on the Tung-Sol ('50s bent-D getter, long grey plate)and Sylvania 5751 3M-BP, GB or other. The latter is my choice for a desert isle, followed by, in a forced decision, TS versus GE (I lean to 'air' when forced).

For some reason, I am less enchanted with the Raytheon (3-mica BP). Though excellent as you describe, it does not to my ear have the character of the others. Very competent in all regards, however, nothing to dislike at all. Just no standout features, comparatively.

Also, I was not bowled over by Syl 5751 3M Grey Plate (WA version), a bit too diffuse for me, though has it's charms for sure, esp. for vocals, where it shines like no other. Much better than JAN versions of this tube, though.

The one I would add to the top three would be GE 3M- shiny BP from the '50s. In fact, these look almost identical to Sylvania GB--slight differences in width of plate flanges (wider in Syl) Not as much air as Tung-Sol, but better body and balance. Second to Sylvania 5751 (WA or GB black plate). Not as extended as Sylvania, but more body and warmth without compromise to clarity. More complex character when 'looking into stage'. Sylvania comes to you.

Three 12ZX7s that compete for top five slots, IMO:

Raytheon 12AX7A ('60-'61)--an odd '2.5 mica (retaining ring for top mica in this version)' 12AX7 type. Similar to Sylvania GB, not quite as well balanced, but, for dark amps (vintage) may be perfect. It displaced Sylvania GB from V3/V4 in my Sherwood S5000II (a honey of an vintage IA), but not in my more resolving CJ-MV52. Was close to Syl, though, for a couple of days.

Tungsram 12AX7 (Hungary, Yellow Print '70s): In my Califonia Alpha 24/96 DAC, this is the best I have tried. Transforms this DAC. In a bright system, however , could sound a bit 'fizzy'. The widest stage of all the tubes and best air. Transformed the sound of my Cal Alpha-CJ system--even with bright Monitor Audio Silver 9i.

Mullard CV4004 (83-85). VERY nicely balanced and extended, similar to GE 5751 with great body. Less air than the best 5751, but better balanced than Tungsram or Raytheon 12AX7. Great in Alpha DAC, better than rest in my circuit, until I tired the Tungsram 12AX7.

Amperex 12AX7 is also quite good--like the TS, but missing some clarity. Lively tube.
freuds_cat-f65f
1 posts
 
As a bass player running these tubes in an Ampeg SVP-PRO preamp.
4 x 12AX7 and 1 x 12AU7 tubes, I have to say that my favourite tube in the V1 is a NOS Telefunken 12AU7 (even though technically in the V1 it should have a 12AX7A (7025) or similar).

But my second favourite tube is the Raytheon you both mention. Man what a great 3D/Air/big soundstage, call it what you will, but it has this, combined with excellent midrange definition and clear solid slightly sparkling tops. The bottom end is ever so warm and perfectly compressed. An absolutely beautiful tube.

I dont mind the RCA black plate 3 mica but seriously the Raytheon is the only tube that is in the same league as the Telefunken that I've tried. Dutch Amperex tubes would be my top of the second division choice.

I have to say that I've been less than impressed overall with most of the US manufactured tubes but as I said, the Raytheon is a major league player IMHO.
nurxhunter
11 posts
 
I recently got some Amperex 'delta' 1957-1958 Long Grey Plate 12AX7 with Strip-Foil D-Detter. In my ASL MG Head OTL III with HD650/Cardas, these are outstanding tubes, esp. with TFK or Amperex EL84. To my ear, as good as Sylvania 3M-BP and even the Grey Plate gold pin Sylvania 5751GB, with an edge to the latter.
rabinowicz-5978
1 posts
 
What about current production and specifically the EI tube?
mechans
3,048 posts
 
Its always a difficult to try and compare tubes of even a single variety e.g. 5751s which I have been collecting for only a year or so. I have 3 different Raytheon types alone, FWIW I also seem to prefer the double mica Raytheon although they are reportedly not as good as the triple mica which I own a few pairs.
The primary target of most collectors these days in 5751s is just finding good clean NOS 1950s early 60s triple mica blackplates. Not to long ago thre was an AA thread that declared the NOS supply completely depleted. Although you constantly hear that they are not a great sub for a 12AX7 in truth and that Joe's tube lore on AA is balogna, people squirelled them away anyway.
As prices climbed in the stratosphere (I saw pairs of well lettered clean Sylvania TMBPs go for $400 and $500 a pair). they started to come out of the woodwork as things like this tend to force the demand got high and a supply appeared, things aren't at a crescendo anymore but people still pay enough they are far from cheap unless they are garbage, plentyof that or abundant and newer.
I assume you were talking about the newer Sylvania/Jan (circa 1970-1980s). The main brands amongst the TMBPs from the golden era were Sylvania the most sought after still, the grey plates aren't far behind in terms of what they cost and commercial Gold brands had Grey plates in many instances. I noted that you do not draw much distinction between the black and greys which is interesting, because they do sound very different as entire categories. The big 3 Sylvania, GE, and RCA all had military contracts, denoted as JHS JG and JRC in that order but weren't different than the commercial versions except some of the Gold Brand Sylvanias in 2 micas. The other big players were RCA almost always blackplate in 3 mica, white label and the RCA "Command" a high demand double mica. GE seems to have made the most and had the 5 star brand they are the easiest to find and perhaps have the most thunderous bass, not the best necessarily, but the most, especially if you are talking about the grey plates.
Only a few obscure ones float around of which the CBS is considered unusual but not extremely rare the Tung Sols are available as recent production double micas.
I thought I knew most of them, but you got me with the Acturus never seen one available.
Even though they are a quintessentially American tube, there were even European ones made. Siemans made triple Micas in the 60s which have a collectors interest.
Curiously you did hit a tubeophiles delight in the Raytheon.
I don't have the desire to comment on your findings mainly because I am not entirely sure of the tubes you are describing but they appear to be the more recent production ones. It would be a tedious process.
I would highly recommend that you get some TMBP late 50s Sylvanias, they won our local audio area group's shootout. While you're at it get the others the RCA I like them they are taught and well controlled. The GE for dimensionality etc. These are for the older tubes only.
Please do tell tell me where I can find the Arcturus- Thanks- Steve
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