Also...what are owners using for amplification? |
I have the infinity primus p363's and the revel f12 so I can tell you that the revels blow the infinity's away, they even sound better than the infinity beta 50's, had them too, the revels have much better drivers than the infinity's, revel uses cast aluminum baskets on all their drivers as compared to infinity's stamped sheet metal drivers, the crossover is better in the revels too, the revel uses a 1 inch dome tweeter as compared to infinity's 3/4 inch dome, most people who own the infinity's complain that infinity should have used a 1 inch dome in the speaker as the 3/4 inch tweeter they use doesn't sound that great, the cabinet is thicker on the revel and made of a higher quality board. |
Thanks Kid...I used to own the Beta 50s as well as the Interlude 40s...both at higher price points then the P362...the Primus is a much more balanced, musical speaker...the excessive bass/mid-bass bloat of those made for a challenging listen at times...the Primus still retains the soft treble/warm bass/smooth presentation Infinity is known for...albeit far more neutral this time around...soundstaging, imaging, and transparency are excellent...I have no doubt the F12s are a better speaker...but the Primus are an exceptional value...Stereophile got it right...as measurements don't lie... |
After many changes and upgrades over the years, I am extremely happy with my system. After spending fifteen years with my wonderful Vandersteen 1C's, I am experiencing a greatly improved sound of music with my new Revel F-12 speakers. The synergy between all my components is quite good, and the musical enjoyment is sublime. The hours spent in my listening chair are truly glorious, and I'm a very happy music lover !
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Also, the JBL L890s, are similar and have great sound as well. |
Update: After auditioning some F12s yet again...following thoughts on them vs Primus 362...the F12s have the edge in deep bass response...but the effect is not dramatic...touch more transparent/detailed in the midrange...but again, splitting hairs as the 362s are no slouch in this area...imaging and soundstaging are a virtual dead heat...as these are the 362s strenghths...their soundstage L-R width is really quite impressive...more so given the price point...they both are a bit on the polite side...but the difference between the two is closer than many would think...the Revels did receive a full grade(B) above the Primus in Stereophile...which means they are both excellent products |
Another big bonus at this price point...Primus 362s have an abnormally large sweet spot...I assume to the wide dispersion characteristics noted in Stereophile...they really do a nice job of creating a "wall of sound" as a friend of mine suggested...far from perfect...lively cabinet...which Im surprised Harman didn't address...they obviously were aware of it...possibly price driven...but it doesn't seem to alter the good things the Primus are able to accomplish |
I read that the newer model primus 363 has a thicker and better braced cabinet than the primus 362, Harman's goal was to correct the lively cabinet when they replaced the p362 with the p363, my p363's cabinets measure 3/4 of an inch thick, I'm driving my revel f12's and the p363's on a forte 4a 50 wpc of pure class A amplifier and i can honestly say that the revels beat the p363's hands down, if you compare the two speakers in the same room using the same equipment as I did you will see that revel is a much better sounding speaker, it's not even close especially when you crank them up, the revels have an In-room response of ±1.0dB from 58Hz to 18kHz, that's damb good. |
Kid...not taking any thunder form the F12s...your happy with your purchase...I am happy with mine...362/363 share the same specs...which are very similar to the 360 reviewed in Stereophile...the Primus 36X models are extremely flat as well...they both have the benefit of Harmon's deep pockets testing facility...I just couldn't afford the 1k or more difference for the F12s...so I settled for the Primus...which isn't a bad compromise...enjoy your Revels my friend.... |
Final update for those curious about Primus line...more money will get one improved transparency, higher resolution,deeper bass,improved cosmetics, etc...however...as mentioned...the real strength of the budget design is in the imaging/soundstaging arena...this is where the speaker can compete comfortably with far pricier models...however lets be clear: don't expect 2k Sonus Faber sound for $600 MSRP...that being said... I prefer a BIG sonic picture...and the Primus offers a nearly full range depiction with a very nice separation of instruments...and a level of involvement and musicality that is virtually non-existence at its price point...one could go the reference monitor route with improved detail,etc...but once one factors in stands and a musical sub...the Primus becomes almost a no-brainer in terms of price vs Performance...I acquired a second pair in case Harmon ever decides to discontinue the line.... |
I would give a listen to the magnepan MMG $600 MSRP, aside from deep bass response they are very detailed from top to bottom and throw a really nice 3D soundstage much better than the primus series, they lack a little in dynamics so I wouldn't recommend them for rock music. |
I agree with you though, the primus speakers are hard to beat at their price, I remember people buying them new a few years ago for only $199 a pair, at that price they were a steal, there is a used pair of revel f12's on the bay for $800. |
Interesting...I auditioned the MG 12s a few years back...as a friend had the 1.6s...and it really depends on your musical taste...I primarily listen to classic rock, new wave, electronica, reggae, etc...not really the strength of small planar speakers...they did sound amazing on vocals, small jazz ensembles, acoustic material, etc...add to the fact they are tricky to mate with subs...I passed |
MMG's probably wouldn't sound too good on classic rock, I Have a pair of Infinity IRS epsilons and they sound incredible on the best recordings but when I want to listen to classic rock I turn to my revels. |
Revels are unique at their price point as the have no glaring weaknesses...and excel in many areas...they also cover a wide frequency range and don't require a sub or stands...outstanding value...Primus has same principles but executed through Chinese production to reduce cost...although I believe the F series is made in Mexico...still they are a lot of speaker for the money...I still have my Interlude 30s which are far more attractive than the Primus but not nearly as musical...there is something going on with P36x series that really make unique...one of the better Infinity products in the last decade IMHO |
I have owned infinity speakers since 2002. I had a 7.2 system with Primus 360 towers all the way around. Then I upgraded to the Alpha 50 towers (4), Alpha 20 (4), and eventually the 25es surround (2). I continued to evolve into the Beta series. Beta 50 (2) and matching center, dipoles and subs for 7.2. I sell high end audio and my 7.2 system puts to shame anything matching its original retail price and will outperform any speaker I've heard double its price. I have always wanted the Revel F12s. I finely found a mint used pair locally and brought them home last night. They are different from the Betas. Betas are more forward, have greater transparency, better attack, but also tend to be bright, and are lean in the mids. The f12s are full in the mids, softer on top and less fatiguing. This is arguably a formula for a very musical speaker, where the betas may prove to be better for cinema. It really comes doen to personal preference. I am extremely familiar with the betas. I have mated numerous amps, preamps and high end cables to them. I am still getting to know the Revel f12s and look forward to many hours of doing the same.
Many people in threads don't believe there are any differences between these two speakers internally. There are, and I've got pictures to prove it. The drivers inside the Revels are much more substantial. So there a way to post pics? Is so I will attach. |
Minimus, Mr. C,
I thank you for selling me the Revel Concerta F12s you referenced in your post above some 5 years ago. There was a time the Infinity Primus 250 was my tower, upgraded to a P363 soon after. An amazing value, very neutral, just like the measurements say. There's always a bigger, bolder speaker...and the F12 became that speaker for me.
I used it in a theater setup, then a few years ago they got put into 2 channel duty. The whole time, a DIY PC with a Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD has been the source feeding a Marantz SR7500. I always was satisfied.
Recently decided to try an external USB DAC for giggles, since it is a 2 channel rig now, no need for surround decoding of a sound card...
...wow. Speakers really came to life with a glorious sounding nuForce µDAC 2 I used to run with headphones.
Thanks again Minimus; hope life sees you well.
B |
