Walkman, yes it is good that I haven't seen the indicator light in awhile. I am leary to crank the volume while using the Sony DVD to see if I can make it reoccur though, hence keeping it under '31'. |
Thanks walkman! Not sure exactly what I am going to do (a lot of different options running through my head), but I'll figure it out, and hopefully quickly. ;) |
Jsbail/Walkman - Well, with my first pair of Forests, one of the wire coils inside of the speaker had broken free in shipping. While setting them up, I heard something 'clunking' around inside the cabinet. I took the binding post cover off and saw that the wire coil had broken free of the tie wraps that had been securing it. I was nervous that that coil may have bashed something else inside the speaker, so I never played them and easily exchanged them for another pair.
Then about a month or two later, while listening my left speaker started making a scratching noise on low bass notes. Upon further inspection it seemed as if the woofer was blown. I sent this back to have the woofer replaced - again easy to work with, just time without a speaker.
Speaker came back, sounded good. Now 3 weeks later, and it is now the right speaker in my system and that same scrathy noise is occuring, exactly as before. So, I am just tired of having to worry about it and going another direction.
Totem and my dealer have been great, just having this many things go wrong in such a short span of time has me soured on these speakers. I have previously owned Tabus and Arros for extended periods of time with no issues whatsoever!
Walkman - The Hawks never pulled me into the music that way other Totem speakers have - I'm not sure if it's the speaker, or just the systems synergy that I have heard them on???
Dwhitt - I am a fan of that Totem sound. I could go with another line. They also carry Krell speakers, but could acquire other lines for me as well. I have liked the SOnus Faber Grand Piano home in the past. And I just recently heard the Dali MS5 for the first time and loved it, but that is in a whole other price class!!! Any suggestions for other lines I should consider? I am a big fan of Totem and have always found them to 'stand out' in their respective price class.
Milpai/Rbstehno - I prefer a floor standing speaker to a monitor, but maybe I should investigate those suggestions as well???
Maybe I need to give the Hawks another shot??? |
Walkman - if this had been my first pair of Totems I may have been a little more irritated. Being the third, and that Totem has been bringing beautiful sound to my ears for the past 3+ years is why I assume I am so mellow about it? ;)
Baroque_lover - I am going to give the piano homes another listen... |
24u, do you have a link to more information on the Equations? My google results didn't turn up much...
Bdgregory, thanks for the comments! I would love to do without a sub, but I think in my space the Sttafs would need a little help. I would go the Mani route, but that would require an amplification change at the same time!!! ;) |
Well I listened to the Staffs in my system this weekend and was surprised at how good they sounded - well, I shouldn't say surprised, but impressed.
When I moved the Arros to the larger space I quickly realized that I needed to move to a larger speaker as the Arro just couldn't flesh out the soundstage in the larger room - this prompted the purchase of the longed for Forests. The Sttafs had quite some presence in my room - not that of the Forests, nor the pinpoint detailing and precision, but they they didn't have a 'chuffing' woofer either! ;)
Having listened to the Sttafs on their own, I can say I probably wouldn't even need to add a sub? I am not a bass junkie and the presentation seemed full enough for me to enjoy. I would also like to keep the room less cluttered - less two subwoofer 'boxes', and the system simpler as well.
Now I just have to decide if I give the Hawks a shot against them? I guess the only way to know for sure is the bring them home and compare. |
Yeah, coming down from the Forests, the Hawks may retain some qualities of precision that the Sttafs can't hold onto? I am hoping to give the Hawks a listen in-home in the near future so I can let my ears decide... |
Grakesh, I will happily post my thoughts. The Hawks have to be ordered, so it may be a bit until I get the chance to compare? |
Currently have both the Hawks and the Sttafs in house right now. Letting the Hawks 'burn in' over the week and hope to do some serious listening this upcoming weekend. |
Beheme, the Hawks came with a red 'important notice' sheet regarding the drivers and break in. They recommend the first 150 hours to be at moderate listening levels; 'This said, even after break in, because of extreme long throw of the woofer and taking into consideration its dimension, one has to use a certain amount of restraint and judgment in order to protect the woofer elements. These are precise reproducers that extend very low in frequency and restraint is sometimes required in order to not overtax them beyond their physical limitations.' So read the 'important notice'. I found this sheet curiously interesting and even more so reading the comment from your dealer above.
Grakesh, I no longer have the Forests to do a head-to-head-to-head comparasion, but the woofer was blown, so the Forests wouldn't have faired well anyway. ;) I can comment on their performance having recently owned them though, although my thoughts/comments may be a bit skewed regarding my recent history. ;)
The Hawks have about 50 hours on them so far, been playing John Pizarelli 24/7 since Saturday at 'moderate levels'. Listening to some movies on it for the first time this evening. Seem to have a lot more presence for HT compared to the Sttaf. Haven't done a direct head-to-head yet though, so I'll post back later - after the 150 hour mark. |
Will do! I listened to them in an HT environment before at my dealer and they seemed to have no qualm about it - playing a LOTR DVD. It wasn't until I read that notice that it concerned me. I have an email in to Totem regarding the use of the Hawk in an HT environment, we'll see what they say... |
Grakesh,
The Forests did not have any red 'important notice' sheet with them. The Forest woofers may have failed (or became damaged) during an HT passage, but I am not certain of the exact cause of the woofer blowing? In 2 instances, during HT play the Simaudio i5 'warning' LED came on. I contacted Simaudio about this and their response that this is an indication of 'DC' at the output and to turn the level down until this did not occur. This could have damaged the Forest woofer, but at the same time the Forest woofer blew two different times, each time it was a different channel in my system - once left, once right AND once before the i5 was even in the system. The other speaker never had any issues, which led me to beleive that the 'warning' light was not the cause of the damage, there was something inherently wrong with the one speaker - otherwise, both would have had issues?
I do think, in a space the size of mine the Forest needs more power than the i5 has to offer.
Walkman, I haven't pulled out a db meter, but for the 24/7 John Pizarelli I've had the i5 set to '20'. While actively listening to music I have it set at '25', and while watching HT I haven't gone past '28'. I was imaging these levels are all well below 80db. I will pull out my meter and let you know though. When driving the forests, I usually listened to music at '25' and movies at '31'. Some movie soundtracks required going to '33' or above, although usually not an issue, it was at these levels the i5 'warning' indicator blinked. |
Walkman, our components are identical then. Simaudio did mention to check all connections as it could be a source component as well. Thinking about it, the light only ever came on while using the Sony 999ES as a source. I have cranked music through the Nova as high as 35 (too loud to listen to for long) with no indication of that light as all. Perhaps the Sony is the culprit???
I will do some db measurements here in a little bit... |
TOTEM's RESPONSE (to my inquiry of using the Hawks in HT):
'the Simaudio unit should have no problem driving the Hawk's in home theater (especially if you only listen to moderate / high levels )
that warning is more for multi channel receivers that have boosted THX and DTS levels with exaggerated bass elevations' |
Walkman, my db measurements:
Sony DVP999ES at '20' equals approx. 55db (CD)
Sony DVP999ES at '28' equals approx. 65-70db (DVD)
Simaudio at '20' equals approx. 55db (CD)
Simaudio at '27' equals approx. 70db (CD)
So that is where I have been listening at, or not exceeding for the time being. This is in an approx. 450sf room with the speakers 8' apart and my listening position centered between them 8' away. The Hawks are currently about 2' out from the rear wall (measured from the rear of the cabinet). |
Upstateaudio, did you blow your woofer before or after the first 150 hours?
Walkman, yeah, I don't know what caused the indicator light to come on? It has never come on when the Nova is played, no matter at what level. I haven't seen it on the Sony lately, but I don't put the volume past 31 when using that as the source. 34 is where it had occured before with the Sony on the Forests. I just put the volume to 50 (with nothing playing and the speakers disconnected) with the Sony input selected and no indicator light?
Beheme, I would prefer not having a sub, but at that price it may be worth consideration? Just setting the speakers to small in the DVD player then? And sub to 'yes/on'? |
Thanks Upstateaudio, I usually don't listen much louder than 90db anyway - more in the 80db range.
Beheme, I think the only issue I have with adding a sub is that I would prefer just the Hawks for music - sans sub. Is there something I am missing that would allow me to use the sub only for movies and not for music? Can the sub be hooker up directly to the DVD player??? |
Walkman, I am pretty impressed with them thus far. I haven't been a huge fan of the Hawk when hearing them in several different setups, but I am thinking the synergy of amplification pairing may have been partially to blame? I always preferred the Forest to them when auditioning at the dealer.
They should reach their 150 hour mark on Saturday morning, so I plan to spend some time listening between the Sttafs and Hawks then. Initially, they definitely have more presence and I can tell they are more detailed as well. I wouldn't classify them as a 'warm' speaker as has been mentioned above. I feel that both the Sttaf and Forest have more 'warm' qualities to them? I am definitely coming around on the Hawks though. I've only listened at moderate levels and don't even have the claws installed on them, nor played around with placement, so these are very initial thoughts. |
Beheme, can I hook a sub up direct to the DVD player via the 5.1 channel outs? I noticed a subwoofer out here - then the sub would only be used while using the Sony as the source?
I experimented with turning the speakers to 'small' and it just sounded like crap with out the lower octaves there.
Lastly, if I can use the subwoofer out on the DVD player, should I switch the analog L/R out to the L/R out in the 5.1 output section? |
I think I'll remain sub-less as well. I like to keep my system as simple and uncluttered as possible! |
I listened to them a long time ago, when I originally got the Tabu. They were impressive, but at the time, the Tabu just had some 'magic' that drew me into the presentation more - I think it was part of it's unique capacitor-less design? I am not a bass freak, so giving up the last couple of octaves for a presentation that pulled me into the music more was an obvious choice! I have grown to prefer floorstanding speakers, mostly due to the aesthetics, so I never reconsidered them or gave them another serious listen. |
OK, I had a chance to give a little listen between the two this weekend. In my system and space, the Hawk brings a lot to the table - more presence, fuller sound, more precise imaging and tonal accuracy. In movies the dialouge was more audible and the soundstage was better fleshed out. There is a tinge of data retrieval that the Hawks seem to have that is borderline 'etchy'? I don't know how to describe it, but there seems to be this constantly in-the-background, kind of almost ready to appear sibilance, but it never does happen - it's like you think it's coming, but it never gets there? I don't know how to put words to it, just something I picked up. Odd, I know. ;)
During the test, listening to the Sttafs next to the Hawks they just couldn't keep up. Both in audiophile ways and simply in filling the room with sound. At lower volumes they sound superb, but as the volume increases this is where the Hawk clearly pulls ahead. In a smaller space at lower volumes I would be a much harder decision, possibly leaner in favor of the Sttaf for me? I know I listed above all the ways the Hawk is superior in 'audiophile' ways, but at low volumes the Sttaf is just damn fun to listen to! I think leaving all the audiophile stuff aside, I simply enjoy it's presentation more.
Anyway, the Hawk is clearly a winner but at the same time I am wondering if this is the system for me? It still doesn't draw me in like my cairn/primaluna/arro system used to, but that was in a 9x11 room. I am now in a 3500 cubic foot room and need more volume to fill the space. I think the Hawks in my room could still use more power than the i5 has to offer?
Just when I was thinking I was nearing the end of the road, I find myself reconsidering my whole system again. I am just longing for the system to put a smile on my face the way the previous music system did - where I can sit back and enjoy and not worry about a thing! Maybe I am just burnt out on listening too critically too much recently? Maybe still frustrated that neither of these are the Forest sound, but that is no longer an option for me? I don't know?
I'm sure this post wasn't of much help, just telling you where I'm at.... |
Walkman, you raise a lot of good points. I think either the Hawk or Sttaf paired with the Simaudio in a slightly smaller room woudl sound great. The Sttafs sound great at lower volumes, but to have that 'draw you into the music' that the Arro based system had, the system (in this larger space) simply needs more presence.
I think the Hawks may need a little more power to sound 'fuller' but at the same time maybe what i'll find is that I simply need a more room-filling speaker?
I don't know, I am just at a point of frustration at this point. I was happier with less $$$ wrapped up in gear a few months back and now I am here - more $$$ wrapped up but not neccesarily satisfied. Don't get me wrong, it sounds good but it just doesn't make me grin form ear-to-ear the way the Arro based system did. I did have the Arro based system in this large room breifly and it didn't perform the way it did in the smaller space. That is what prompted the initial upgrade. That and consolidating my HT and 2-channel systems into one 2-channel HT. I don't miss the 5.1 channel HT, but right now I am missing some magic?
I am hoping to get off this merry-go-round and just enjoy the music! ;) |
To me, when the Forests were working well, they would still be my personal speaker of choice of the 3. Just my personal opinion though. |
The Sonus Faber Grand Piano Home were a contender for me back in the day. I did enjoy their sound. I also listened to the Dali MS5's recently which were brilliant, but in a whole other price class. Quite possibly, I simply may need to start back at square one? Walkman might be right about something more sensitive and easier to drive???
I went over to Tweeter (i know) the other night, because they had the Sonus before. They stopped carrying them, but they did have the JMLab Profile there paired with a Krell SACD standard and kav400xi. I was surprised to see gear of that caliber in a Tweeter? They also had ML's (but those have never been my flavor). I listened breifly to the Krell/Profile system and it sounded pretty sweet. Hard to get a good demo in a Tweeter though, with all those bigscreens mumbling in the background. Plus, I knew more about the pieces than the salesman did. Go figure! ;) |
Beheme, thanks for your comments - I think you are right on. I will research those peices you mentioned above, as I am not familiar with them. I am open to options at this point. I think you are right though, finding a clear source and tube amplification may be my signature sonic bliss. I brought a Jolida CDP into the Prima/Arro system against the Cairn and I preferred the cairn - the Jolida just lost too much detail and the whole thing started to get 'mushy' around the edges. I know Cairn has the MOOV2 coming out (if not out already?) that is an all in one player. Adding DVD to the mix is a tough one and if I could find it all in one box with excellent CD playback that would be an added plus - I know I am asking for a lot there! ;) I'd like to give the Krell Showcase DVD a listen. Should be clean and detailed? And all-in-one. Don't know how it would compare to the SACD that I seemed to like though? Thanks again for the recommendations! |
Baroque, the Arros are too small for my current space. Listening briefly to those in the large space made me realize that I had to move up the line. I guess I may be able to go with Arros with subs, but I think I would go another route before adding subs?
Currently, I still have the Hawks - not sure if I will trade those in to my dealer for electronics or attempt to build a system around them?
Options running through my head:
Build a system around the Hawks that will be easy and convienent for both music and HT - preferrably with an all-in-one source, options:
krell showcase dvd
krell kav400xi
NAD master series m55 universal player
NAD master series m3 integrated
plenty of power with both, ease and conveinence of SS. SS control for HT.
'Beheme' plan - SS source, tube integrated:
DVD??? (H/K, Cambridge, Denon)
Cairn Fog CDP
Rogue Tempest Integrated
Cary Audio DVD6
Rogue Tempest
(or)
BAT vk55i (powered direct by dvd6) - not sure how well that will work?
Those are just a few options I am thinking about with gear I have heard. Other potential (non Totem) speaker options would be Sonus, Dali, Focal Profile.
Plus there have been some suggestions above of gear I may want to listen to. It looks pretty wide open. I would love to have a 'simple' system. Same manufacturer source and amp so one remote appeals to me. I know not most important factor, but a 'nice to have'. I have been calling around to try to listen to some of this gear again and hear new things like the Avalon mentioned above. |
RBstehno, what amps are you using to drive your respective Totems right now? |
Thanks for the info Rbstehno.
Beheme, do you recommend the Avalons over anything from Audio Physic? I know you have been please with those in the past as well - is the Avalon offering another step up??? |
